Trumpcare passes the house

Still has to pass the Senate, but already the Democrats are terrified.

The essential and important feature of Trumpcare is that it “denies insurance to millions of Americans”. In other words, when you seek medical care, when those who pay for and operate our system of medical care seek medical care, they will not find one hundred drug addicts looking for free drugs and one hundred bums looking for free food, a free bed, and human contact in front of them. Those people, drug addicts, criminals, and suchlike, are still going to get subsidy, but they will go literally or metaphorically through a different door to the people who are paying.

Now even if Trumpcare passes the Senate, we still have to pass it to find out what is in it. The details are going to be filled in by regulators – regulators who are theoretically under Trump’s supervision, but are in fact far more answerable to the permanent government. So we still could be screwed nine ways from Sunday.

But like Trump himself, Trumpcare offers remote possibility of success, as compared to the absolute certainty of failure.

A possible outcome of this vote, a successful outcome of this vote, is that the marginal voter, the swinging voter, gets reasonable healthcare, or at least healthcare that is less outrageously terrible, and the Democrat voter core (vagrants, drug addicts, whores, single mums, and criminals) loses out – which of course is going to mean a major swing to Trump and Republicans, and a major swing away from Democrats. Hence the widespread abject pants-wetting terror among democrat politicians.

Trumpcare protects people with pre-existing conditions, without however giving them the same insurance you get. Which may in practice mean that people who don’t pay go in through the same door you do, or may not mean that. If it means that people who don’t pay go in through the same door, then that means that people who pay get treated like criminals, vagrants and drug addicts, in short like Democratic party core voters, that being the vast majority of non paying people showing up at hospital. People say that the very old are costing us a bundle, that the very sick are costing us a bundle. No, it is Democratic Party core constituencies that are costing us a bundle.

Not needing to pay for healthcare and having plenty of time on your hands makes a vastly greater difference to how much healthcare you consume than being old and sick does. In short, being a Democratic core constituency is the major variable determining how much healthcare a person is going to consume.

Any system that guarantees that some morbidly obese alcoholic on the street is going to get the same standard of healthcare as an affluent middle class person is going to guarantee that that affluent middle class person is going to get very little healthcare. If Trumpcare is going to provide a reasonable standard of healthcare for the median voter, it has to deny a reasonable standard of healthcare for the modal Democratic party voter. Whether it will do so is far from clear, but it is absolutely certain that Obamacare will not provide a reasonable standard of healthcare for the median voter.

167 Responses to “Trumpcare passes the house”

  1. Pseudo-chrysostom says:

    This is what liberals actually believe.

  2. Art says:

    “Apparently you do not know the meaning or significance of the phrase “world reserve currency”. Allow me to explain:
    it means that if the dollar winks out of existence, every currency backed by the dollar goes with it.”

    Off the top of my head I cannot think of any institutions that depend on one particular currency. They can all function just as well with any stable currency or stable commodities.
    The most significant effect of the USD collapse would be the loss of USD savings. Other than that, it would be a major but temporary inconvenience.

    • Cavalier says:

      Remember how the popping of the real estate bubble wiped out untold trillions of dollars of “assets” and nearly took down every private bank in the world?

      Nowadays, you wouldn’t even need to disappear America to wreak the financial havoc I describe. All you have to do to literally destroy the entire world financial system is turn off the unlimited-free-money QE∞ money spigot… or, in other words, raise the interest rate back up from zero.

    • Andrew E. says:

      US Dollars have become so integral to world finance that European banks had to invent new ways to manufacture dollars out of thin air themselves, without needing to go through the Fed first. This is how Eurodollars came about. There are trillions of eurodollar deposits that were conjured up to keep the credit money expansion going worldwide. Eurodollars collapse into dollar liabilities which collapse into Fed liabilities which collapse into physical dollar bills. The great unwind will be a thing to behold.

  3. guest says:

    Jim, any thoughts on The Bill To Permanently Fix Health Care For All by Karl Denninger? Everything else seems to be just the proverbial rearranging of deck chairs on the Titanic, or kicking the can down the Titanic deck, it’s not just bad, it’s very bad, Trumpcare or not.

    • jim says:

      Healthcare has to have prices. No prices, no market, it is going to be hopelessly inefficient. Simple solution, similar to that proposed, is that if no prices, cannot claim people owe you money for services.

      • Alrenous says:

        How easy it is to convince the voter to let you play silly buggers with supposedly critical systems. Whereupon they do the crab bucket / hose monkey thing and chimp out on anyone who wants to make the system vaguely sane again.

  4. Pseudo-chrysostom says:

    Somewhat OT jim; a lengthy comment of mine seems stuck in the buffer.

    Actually happened before a month or so ago too, not sure if that one ever went through either.

  5. B says:

    Obviously, a repeal of Obamacare is, or would be, good.

    On the other hand, a total repeal of Obamacare would mean returning a (large) sector of the American economy to the year 2009. Not exactly a stupendous triumph for liberty.

    On the third hand, it’s likely that Trumpcare will be something between Obamacare and a normal situation, where people can choose their own insurance, or no insurance whatsoever, and the government provides some kind of fallback. Even less of a stupendous triumph.

  6. Learner says:

    Two short comments: 1. If you are rich, you will get better healthcare than the rest of the population. That happens under Obamacare, under Trumpcare, and even under Chávez’ Venezuela. On the other hand, if you aren’t rich, a single, unexpected, severe health accident can make you a homeless person overnight. I’d say most Trump supporters aren’t rich at all.

    2. It is important not to confuse the median US citizen and the median US voter. The median US citizen is more Hispanic and Asian than the median US voter, who is blacker and whiter. Yes, both blacker and whiter (look at the stats). Only 40% of the US population does vote.

    • viking says:

      you’re right I have said before not only do whites have a low tolerance for suffering of others we have a low tolerance for our own given the choice we want insurance i dont think many care whether private or socialist insurance but we want to be assured we cant be knocked into the pig trough by bad luck. what having the niggers and whites on same insurance plan does is make it hard to calculate what the cost is to keep us safe and what the cost is to keep niggers suffering in the streets we walk to a minimum costs.
      the fact is we already have and will likely never rid ourselves of free healthcare for the indigent. the best way to control that cost is to make it stand alone and call it what it is government free care for the poor. force its actual costs and what it offers into the open, rather than mix it in with private insurance and medicare. I would offer medicare at least for those who already paid in a choice you can either have the free plan for the poor with some extra benifits or you can get a voucher to apply towards private insurance valued at what close to what you paid in

  7. Truthteller9 says:

    Your Trump hero worship is embarrassing. It’s turning you into party hacks that eschew truth in favor of commissary-like propaganda.

    The reality is that the white working class are largely those obese alcoholics and diabetics you assume are solely dem party constituencies.

    Spencer and Moldbug have endorsed a single-payer system. Try to keep up.

    • viking says:

      so lets do what the jew and the nazi advise? because? His trump worship is pathetic in its naivete and inability to see trumps a moron who simply hit on a few obviously right ideas before quickly cucking half way before election
      turning over our health care to the cathedral might be simple but ‘death panels’ is not too unrealistic in fact inevitable.Those of us who can afford to indulge our more life fucker appetites are not prepared to bow to your wanting to dispense with the difficulty of the problem.
      costa rican level free health care for all, private health care at whatever level you can afford if you can afford.
      The white working class may indeed be alcoholic or obese as are many billionaires its neither here nor there, if they can pay for healthcare.
      But lets be frank the comment shows youre one of the wannabe cathedralites like land. self hating whites that only object to the cathedral in as much as they are not part of its ruling elite. If the majority of whites are lacking the character you imagne you have then as an elite you failed.No nation despite the jew and Land is going to survive composed entirely of eloi fags. it s the duty of the ruling class to cultivate the yeoman class for too many reasons to waste time enumerating on someone so fucking stupid

    • pdimov says:

      “Spencer and Moldbug have endorsed a single-payer system. Try to keep up.”


    • jim says:

      The reality is that the white working class are largely those obese alcoholics and diabetics you assume are solely dem party constituencies.

      Stroll into a California medical facility. It is full of obese Hispanics, most of them with no job and no hablo English. Scarcely an obese white working class guy in sight.

      Yes, the white working class is fatter than the white middle class, and the white middle class, and I myself, are far too fat. But the vast majority of the morbidly obese clogging up hospitals are Hispanics with no job and no hablo English, living on crime, welfare, and voting Democrat.

    • peppermint says:

      — The reality is that the white working class are largely those obese alcoholics and diabetics you assume are solely dem party constituencies.

      alcoholism, obesity, and diabetes are bigger problems for Whites now that in the past. However, from racial statistics, well, there’s a new academic field of health justice to explain those away.

      • Truthteller9 says:

        Cucks, wear longer skirts– your libertarian pussies are showing.

        There’s no neoreactionary future without placating the 100 Million white proles, who are 50% of trump’s subjects.

        The niggers have piss-poor Medicaid eligibility– which Jew Kushner won’t let trump touch. The wetbacks have must-access hospitals laws– which Jew Kushner won’t let trump touch.

        Go to a rural Ohio nursing home of drooling whites grandparents or a strip-mall diabetes clinic in Kentucky. Who’s paying for that? It’s through a combination of must-issue preexisting-condition laws, working class level Medicaid, and legacy union health plans.

        You don’t want that Rube Goldberg corporatist system? Then the only realistic answer is throwing the plebes some kind of clean single-payer.

        Le Pen recognizes this– she’s running on EXPANDING France’s socialized medicine. Cernovich said outright: “I’m pro-single payer.” Moldbug, who defined The Cathedral, said it’s a “sincere effort to think realistically in the present tense rather than in the abstract ideology.”

        It’s only you libertarian cucks who are clinging to put your Marxist-like economic bullshit over a neoreactionary future. Grow the f- up.

        • jim says:

          There’s no neoreactionary future without placating the 100 Million white proles, who are 50% of trump’s subjects.

          We don’t propose to win an election. Nobody votes for leftism, still less will they vote for reaction. Democracy was always fake, and we have absolutely no intention of making it real.

          • Truthteller9 says:

            That’s hilarious considering how much you’ve been sucking trump’s dick for winning an election. Are you alternating with the teat of Medicare you’re also sucking?

            And election or coup or neofeudal estate, there’s no future without placating 100 million white proles– the very mob you unleashed with your pathetic trump election dick-sucking.

            Or maybe you can go live on Thiel’s ocean ark– LOL.

            • jim says:

              there’s no future without placating 100 million white proles

              A. White proles are politically irrelevant now, and will be even more politically irrelevant if we win.

              B. If we win white proles will be very happy that they no longer have to carry blacks, indios, and mestizos on their backs, not that it matters whether they are happy or not.

              • viking says:

                sounds like nick land why stop at white proles? why not anyone under a 130 IQ nah a 145 IQ make it 160 better still lets just have machines without people.
                A nation is an organic whole, this isnt to say we ask the stupidest people what to do but we recognize all the people are the nation so making snide comments like that well its exactly what the catheralites do, they sneer about rednecks and flyover people.The condition of our proles is deplorable and that is a failure of our elites our proles could be two standard deviations more cultivated. at least half the new cog elites are born to proles every year, without proles you have no economy no military nothing really.And soon we will be genetically editing all citizens.And it matters a lot if they are happy if they get unhappy enough or cheated enough either they will rise up and wreck or some smart usurper will lead them to his coronation. property and power always come down to violence and the volk always hold that card. The volk are not stupid enough to want to dispense with elites they are smart enough to put up with a lot of bad leadership before they fire management, they are not greedy they understand why musk gets a bigger cut than the idaho farm boy manning the nuclear subs that protect the musks. But push them too far and you have failed at sustainable government.

                • Cavalier says:

                  Besides nationalism, which other quintessentially Rousseauian ideas do you hold dear?

                • Cavalier says:

                  Or, rather than “Rousseauian ideas”, should I say, “left-wing lunacy”?

                • peppermint says:

                  nations exist. Nationalism means the government should protect the nation.

                  It’s ridiculous to call that a left-wing idea unless your idea of right-wing means letting rootless cosmopolitans ruin and collapse everything.

        • jim says:

          Go to a rural Ohio nursing home of drooling whites grandparents or a strip-mall diabetes clinic in Kentucky. Who’s paying for that?

          The proposition that poor whites are benefiting from wealth transfers may well have been true fifty or a hundred years ago. It is no longer true. The only significant block of white beneficiaries of wealth transfer are single white women with children. Working class white males work to support single black women with nine kids by nine different black thug fathers.

          • TTAAC says:

            How common can that possibly be, given that black fertility in the U.S. is now virtually indistinguishable from white fertility in the U.S., and both are below replacement level? (

          • Truthteller9 says:

            More bullshit from Jim, the libertarian skirt and fabulist liar.

            You say with a straight face that a burly white beer distributor making $50k a year and paying in maybe $1k in medicare payroll taxes doesn’t take out far from medicare when he has bypass surgery at age 67?

            Or all those fat white prole housewives in Pennsylvania scraping by on eBay sales– they’re paying their own way with Medicare? I doubt you even pay your own way Jim on Medicare.

            The transfers are coming from future generations via the Chinese bondholders. Here are facts to pierce your bullshit:

            “Consider an average-wage two-earner couple together earning $89,000 a year. Upon retiring in 2011, they would have paid $114,000 in Medicare payroll taxes during their careers. But they can expect to receive medical services – including prescriptions and hospital care – worth $355,000, or about three times what they put in. […]”


            • peppermint says:

              — making $50k a year and paying in maybe $1k in medicare payroll taxes

              (1.45% for the employer + 1.45% for the employee)*50k$ ~ 1500$. OK, close enough.

              Why are the prescriptions and hospital care 355k$?

              These people need to carry healthcare plans while they are working.

              How much of the money they shovel into health insurance goes to care for people like them?

              How much of the money that does go to care for people like them is actually needed to care for people like them?

              But you’re right – technically, working class Whites are receiving services whose apparent cost to them is approximately what they are paying or more. Which is why the Cathedral wants single payer so badly – not that the current system isn’t screwing them, just that it isn’t blatant enough about it, which makes them not feel bad enough about being White.

            • pdimov says:

              “You say with a straight face that a burly white beer distributor making $50k a year and paying in maybe $1k in medicare payroll taxes doesn’t take out far from medicare when he has bypass surgery at age 67?”

              Impossible to say because there’s no way to quantify the medical costs. They are literally made up.

              • jim says:

                > Impossible to say because there’s no way to quantify the medical costs. They are literally made up.

                There is a way to quantify medical costs. Look at a country that has a free market in healthcare for the rich (there are no countries with a free market in healthcare for the poor) and look at the prices in that country. As for example Singapore.

                At which point it becomes glaringly obvious that anyone in the US who pays for medicine, is paying for himself and for several people who are not paying.

            • jim says:

              > You say with a straight face that a burly white beer distributor making $50k a year and paying in maybe $1k in medicare payroll taxes doesn’t take out far from medicare when he has bypass surgery at age 67?

              Not only do I say that, but I say that he is paying for a dozen abortions by random women who do not pay anything, and a dozen indios with diabetes who do not pay anything.

              One thousand dollars a year over most of a man’s working life buys one hell of a lot of medical care in Singapore, India, Taiwan, or Thailand – will buy one hell of a lot medical care in any place where white males are not paying insanely high prices to subsidize single mothers and nonwhites getting free medical care.

              Paying a thousand dollars a year even back when he was young and healthy only makes sense if he is carrying at least one other person on his back.

              Don’t look at US prices, because they are a tax on white people to subsidize nonwhite people. Look at Singapore prices, because that is a wealthy country like the US, but unlike the US in that the price of medicine is not the price of you subsidizing an army of drug addicts and vagrants.

    • Pseudo-chrysostom says:

      >The reality is that the white working class are largely those obese alcoholics and diabetics you assume are solely dem party constituencies.

      The reality is that you seem to have credulously internalized proggist memes about red state whites as gospel.

  8. tom says:

    If you don’t like Trumpcare, why not visit the HOMES of your republican representative and talk with him/her about the impact it has on you or your family.

  9. Greg says:

    As a health insurance salesman before Obamacare I had to tell many people that I could not insure their families and the employees of their small businesses because of preexisting conditions or previous illnesses. Other times I could offer insurance but it would not cover their preexisting conditions or the reoccurrence of particular illnesses.

    Trumpcare will move us back to that world, don’t get sick.

    As a moderate (perhaps commie fag junkie* in your worldview), I could further criticize this blog, but no need, the hate and prejudice speaks for itself.

    *a small homage to George Carlin.

    • jim says:

      As compared to the world of Obamacare where only Democratic Party core demographics can afford insurance at all.

      Obamacare has collapsed. If you work for a living, rather than living on voting Democrat, crime, and welfare, you cannot afford health insurance.

      Obamacare was designed as a transfer of healthcare from white males to everyone else – but “everyone else” included people with the capability to absorb absolutely unlimited amounts of free healthcare, so the practical effect of the transfer was to abolish healthcare for white males. Most healthcare is being utilized by a handful of morbidly obese permanently unemployed AIDS seropositive illegal immigrant felons.

      Obamacare was designed on the theory that the beneficiaries would act like white middle class males, but the problem is that they are not white males, with the result that their healthcare utilization is in some cases, quite a lot of cases, enormously higher than is typical for white males.

      Yes, not all X are like that. But quite a lot of X are like that. Which fact no one discussing healthcare is allowed to mention.

      • viking says:

        Jim one part of my life is as a union metal worker in NYC as n most unions like mine there are many contractors that sign with the union agreeing to pay anyone they hire whatever was agreed upon at the last negotiation per hour.Then the members decide at a union meeting how they will allocate the increase, some in the envelope, and the rest among many plans the union has created over the years like medical insurance or supplemental unemployment pension etc.
        A man may not work for a contractor for long he may work for several contractors a year, although others may work for the same contractor their entire careers.Part of the union employer contract is the requirement for the employer to report the weekly hours of all employees and to pay into those various union plans the hourly contribution rate the members decided for those various plans , say $5.25 hour into an IRA plan and $12.75 an hour into the medical plan.
        So a man might go from one employer to another and maintain medical coverage. But he may also be unemployed long enough to lose medical coverage and decide against cobra extensions. or he may transfer in from another local union when theres an abundance of work and that local has a different medical insurer, or he may be a newly indentured apprentice. any of those, or their family members, would have a pre existing condition.The insurer has no way of knowing, this is likely the same as large corporations who provide medical to all employees.At least it used to be.Now of course we are paying for that, the insurer has certainly figured out the odds and added a profit and included it in the bid.And unions and large corporations tend to opt for very generous health plans. In fact our plan although it like many union and large corp plans got a exemption from Ocare really already included things like 26 year old kids being covered and as i just described pre existing conditions.There only $15 copays and no deductibles, My daughters run up 100K in rehabs and mental hospitals. I know of a guy whose premie cost us a million. It has some limits Im sure it doesn’t cover sex changes yet.But besides our contract with blue cross we have a dental and eyeglass and other separate side plans that come out of the same 12.50 contribution per hour.
        So before Ocare this used to cost about 75% of what it does today yet our coverage is the same.
        On the other hand pre ocare if you worked a full year you still ended up paying 18k for insurance. Not cheap. but great coverage.Now some guys paid less they may have worked the minimum required hours to maintain coverage about half the hours, and during a recession when work is scarce id say half the guys were in that category. but that was true before and after Ocare.but to get an idea of what great insurance costs in a high cost state like NYC use 75% say 13k pre Ocare and about 20K today.NYC has a lot of niggers and spics and russian scam artists and jew scam artists so fraud and free care is rampant, and NY also like to institute insurance regs for faggots and women etc its also the most politically corrupt all of which increase costs.
        My point is I dont really think its so much the pre existing etc that is the problem. health care is extremely expensive in the USA for a lot of reasons.and i cant see any way this gets tolerable without a ground up rebuild,as i have said my preference is two groundup rebuilds one private one public. I sometimes build hospitals you cant imagine the complexity of a new york medical facility that never going to be cheap. But we dont need to offer that futuristic health care to every nigger and spic that can scam their way into our nation.But we are going to have to provide them with something that has tolerable optics I think many foreign nations have extremely cheaper health care that has reasonable outcomes without the space age facilities.I dont know how you keep the lefties from increasing the services for niggers except shoot the niggers or the leftys. But at least if they are completely separate sytems it will be clear exactly what the cost increase is and that it is only for moochers.It will also be much more difficult to compare it to the private sector because its private information and dispersed and everyone has a different plan.
        The cucks and trump are only setting themselves up for disaster you can not fix this sytem but now they will have their name on it when it collapses they should have let it collapse then use the crisis to scrap the entire system and separate out the free govt care from the private care

        • Cavalier says:

          Your little working-class racket is going to end shortly after USG goes insolvent immediately after the Fed ends QE∞ after Donald Trump appoints the Chairman.

          • viking says:

            Working class racket?

            You sound like jim , still believing in our lord savoir trump huh?

            • Cavalier says:

              Blue-collar workers aren’t worth a million dollars of healthcare. Steam-fitter unions are parasites suckling at the teat of Big Daddy G just the same as teacher unions are. The big difference between you and the average bureacrat in Washington is that you exchange status for wealth.

              You are a working-class racketeer, Washington bureaucrats are middle-class racketeers, and Wall Street guys are upper-class racketeers.

              Or I guess unions are just the one sole non-corrupt, commie spawn of FDR’s New Deal.

              • peppermint says:

                i dunno, it sounds like they were paying for it, and everyone else at the same time

                wonder what percentage of the union dues went to training mud replacements, as unions began doing in the 80s

                at least their pension money is going in individual iras instead of being used directly be democrats

                • viking says:

                  Mud replacements yes thats the situation the left devouring itself so most unions are under court orders to hire the amount of niggers and spics that the census counts, and when that count changes the courts find them in contempt and continue to order them to pay for a office full of special masters sociologists and various nigger petters and to pay the niggers back wages for allthe hours they spent collecting unemployment and smoking crack instead of going to work tax free of course so the answer is more than all the dues and then we have to make extra donations to meet the cost of our overlords. and of course its destroying- destroyed the work ethic and ability the only good thing is the niggers and spics are only going to inherit the nigger spic union they destroyed and no one will go union anymore unless the lefties force them to which is possible once the cathedral is totally nigger run.And like the nations at large lowering standards to make niggers seem equal destroys whites we cant police our own because niggers would look bad so everything slides to the nigger level

                • viking says:

                  No I cant totally blame the union pols for recommending the democrats democrats are supposed to be their allies and republicans are actively anti union rather than anti government union. However unions pols even Chavez used to be very anti immigration. Unfortunately unionism in the US is tied up with the depression the anarchist and communist scares and generally anti capitalist. I say unfortunately because i think it neednt be this way but circumstances and propaganda wars forced the sides into pigeonholes that are self reinforcing. most union pols get vanity degrees in labor relations that basically are taught by commies and while those guys are mostly reactionary proles by nature that reeducation takes a toll and they do their best to pass it on to membership. to varying effect every union and local is different, in trade unions like mine where we bounce from shop to shop if we want the best men tend to work the steadiest and tend to have excellent work ethics some unions force a more socialized work sharing and this tends to socialize the thinking as well.
                  an intresting development is the osha/ insurance scam, completely independent of unions the government and private sector have since the 70s instituted crazier and crazier “safety” standards and rules that cost more in productivity than the most chauvinist union rules ever did, oddly the contractors went from unconcerned to overwhelmed to almost enthusiastically trying to outdo each other at this point you can barely get anything done but everyones in agreement its that important- which is absurd once they stopped the drinking in the late 80s safety was reasonable the rest of these rules seem to be to create an industry n itself which it has a huge one

              • viking says:

                I suspected that was what you were getting at. First how much healthcare insurance i wish to buy with my own hard earned money is none of your fucking business.As to your estimate of what my life might be worth well lets just say unless you think you are capable of taking my life its worth more than yours.
                As to your cuckservative agitprop about unions well I guess i can spend a minute explaining. teacher unions and civil service unions which you compare mine to are not at all the same. i agree they should be outlawed. There is a conflict of interest they essentially elect their bosses and can fire their bosses, among other moral hazards. Private unions are another thing entirely, union contractors and union employees in trades and crafts compete against non union contractors and workers, union workers also compete against other union workers for the limited work union contractor are awarded and have an interest in helping the contractor continue to be awarded unions go back to the middle ages, and they are morally sound. why should skilled craftsmen not be allowed to insist on requisit wages, you think allowing the boss to play us against each other is somehow fair play and morally superior, sorry i fail to see the ethic. I imagine you will try to make some claim that he can be forced to overpay and be driven out of business. but thats not what happens we cant ask for that much he does bring something to the table as well, he is usually one of us that has risen to the top what would have been called a master in medieval times. we realize his limitations, he too signs the agreement freely. we are simply saying theres usually more men than work and only a few bosses hiring we know in the long run you know which of us are the best but we will not allow you to triangulate the more desperate of us against the best of us and jew us down. you can have any one of us at this minimum rate and some of us my negotiate a premium on top of that.
                Very often these shops have been handed down to the sons and grandsons who have no talent in the business and without the skills of union workers could not operate at all, much of the work we do is very physically demanding and nasty. but also require extraordinary skill that takes decades to master fully. $110 hr is a reasonable wage for such work in nyc where starter homes are 500-700k and other living costs are equally expensive. niggers and spics have used the courts to take the union jobs and they are not worth it in fact they cant do the work at all and elevators are beginning to eat people but that is not unions faults. union leadership is leftist which is stupid but they are politicians and union politics is as corrupt and inept as all politicians, its attracts the lazy stupid and corrupt. I could critique unionism as well but its one of the best compromises to keep skilled white workers at wages they deserve and can provide the dignity and security that whites require for family formation which any sensible elite would understand is a requirement for a successful nation.But go ahead see if you and nick land can build elysium without steam fitters good luck

                • peppermint says:

                  i don’t think union bosses can necessarily be blamed for being leftist. They used to oppose immigrants and then they all got purged for White chauvinism. As I understand it a union is like a temp agency with training and seniority, a business, not a government agency or foundation like leftists eat for breakfast.

                • Cavalier says:

                  Sure, your livelihood is a racket — I knew it before your little spiel and I know it even more after — but I’m not bashing it. It’s a pretty sweet deal if you’re getting cut in on the action. Nice.

                  But I do want you to acknowledge that it IS a racket. I mean, you just wasted several hundred words moralizing about how the poor hand-callused plumbers and electricians “deserve” their hard-earned moneys. Please. Nobody DESERVES anything, and the only reason that 200k/yr tugboat operators (I believe that was one of your past examples) get paid that much is because of government largess, intense politicking, and the enormous amount of “pull” you monkeys have had for the past three-quarters of a century — in short, a vast, multi-generational conspiracy to extract as much as possible for yourselves from everybody else.

                  Collusion of enormous scope and tremendous rigor. Just like medieval guilds.

                  Admit it.

                • peppermint says:

                  the relevant part is “and elevators are beginning to eat people”

                  in the computer industry, there isn’t union training, which would be impossible because niggers must pass, instead everyone goes to college for more brainwashing and to let niggers pass, and then you show your portfolio to the employer directly.

                  recently there was an article somewhere that said that women at facebook have their code commits rejected more frequently than men with the suggestion that names be removed from submissions for review. next they’ll demand comments be removed because women write differently.

              • viking says:

                No I wont concede that people dont deserve a fair wage. There was a time when i held that galts gulch viewpoint but ironically neoreaction gave me the freedom to think outside the cuckserve box.
                To be fair and clear its not that i really disagree that capitalism is a fairly good self regulating system.Its just i realized quite a few other things were true as well.
                But before i tell you them I have to reiterate that without resorting to these other things I have already adequately justified the right of free men to negotiate as a union guild or corporation. Perhaps it would help you not trigger your cuckserve buttons by thinking of unions as corporations which negotiate with other corporations to source labor. This is factually true, unions are corporations that have in fact identified candidates to train in skilled work, they undertake at great expense the training of these individuals and all the other infrastructure and support to bring these individuals through a five year training program and most unions also have all sorts of research and development of new technologies that effect that trade, and public and political relations efforts that support their industry, which they benefit their contractors with.Frankly as i hinted its dubious whether the contractors are really competent at all in many cases.
                Now this sort of a labor providing corporation is all the rage in the new economy and no doubt you have fawned all over the idea because it often is anti human pro corporation landian economics and you animae jerking neck beards all imagine you are really going to be recognized one day as the rightful heirs of the cathedral and assume your suite at Davos, so you like larping that you are special and wont be effected as you get aloder you will realize 130 -145 IQs are a dime a dozen in this world and you are just another shlub. But I digress. so effectively this union corporation is doing exactly what these hipster corporations do only the corporate profits of this labor providing corporation are distributed to its shareholders who are also its members. so like UPS, or a family owned business, its an employee owned corporation. That said I agree government unons should be outlawed as they were.Now if you want to argue that private unions or even consortiums of private unions attempt to influence lawmakers, then fne that will open the door to my other reasons I have rethought how economics ought to be conceived post cuckservatism.But one last old school thought on ths point. so are you equally concerned that other corporations also attempt to influence lawmakers in their interests and that those interests are equally divergent from what you like to imagine as the ideal austrian economy at galts gulch?If so how do you explan your preferance for one type of corporation over the other?

                ok post cuck economics. Ive wasted a lot of time trying to explain my thoughts to fellow reactionaries without triggering their inner NRO cuck. Its difficult and complicated and Im frankly not qualified. But ill simply highlight a few things and if you want to engage Ill elucidate.

                as i said ironically HBD and neo reaction made me less conservative. I was far more reactonary before than after in a sense . I was born a race ralist anti feminist ant democrat etc which is one reason i never though moldy all that but did enjoy him and la grffe etc

                reaction HBd etc forced us to rethink a lot of things. property rights i decided proceed from violence. you own what you can keep, this includes power.Kings never keep their realms long, the most potential violent power in a nation is “the people” they also happen to be integral to the value of a nation- no people no economy no nation. Now its true they can be temporarily oppressed but that never been a good move because theat presents a source of violence to a usurper. But more importantly i think what really happening is “the people ” own the nation and since they are actually cleverer than they seem they recognize the efficiency of authority and essentially appoint an administrator, they do not lightly fire administrators because its inefficient so they will suffer quite a bit of bad administration before changing. Today their is no amazon without the idaho farm boy manning the nuclear subs that protect bezon shipping containers. Musk can not operate without the infradtructure generations of americans have built, and paid for.Trigger warning- these guys we admire really didnt build that.- trust me I was as outraged when the nigger said that as you were, but in a sense there is truth in it. obamas and i differ on the percentage each contributed. an navy salaries start at 16k year plus benefits to min 72 k a year for capt. seems a bit light but for argument sake ill say ts about right. I think the steamfitter that installed the mechanical system for googles various NYC facilities in NYC (me) deserves the 100k plus benefits i got – in short im not suggesting socialism AIACC aside i think Bezos deserves his billons and this fitter deserves his dignified life in the city he grew up in in short i think white men own shares in their nations and are not serfs to be ground up into soylent green and fed to bill gates or nick lands dogs. but let me be clear they desrve it not because they are a human being with inalienable rights but because they and their forefather built maintained and defended the world, yes yes so did the giants of history and these giants deserve outsized shares but musk could not have built tesla in zimbabwe the niggers would have sold the electric generator for scrap then fucked him in the ass.
                But its even more than thatdo you know that half the new cogelites are born every year to prole parents. maybe you are one of the elo types who cant imagine having a beer with a fitter or farmer, if so i think you are part of the cause of the demise of the west, while its true to a large part we prefer the company of people of similar backgrounds I have found first that we are not as cognitively sorted as murray would have it, and that people with 100 IQ can be a pleasant diversion on ocasion they make good pastries and have all sorts of surprises that makes life interesting, i wouldnt want to live with the elysium fags i want a nation that has some cognitive and cultural diversity- i could even enjoy a tiny bit of well managed nigger diversity.
                I will mention another point about capitalism why do we revere it? while some of us no doubt revere it for its mechanism alone its really revered because it serves us its utility. Now without getting into the weeds of how capitalism is as undermined by “capitalists” as much as socialists, and why and how to correct. I will say first that few would say capitalism never needs intervention, its pretty clear at a certain point a once competitive corporation wrecker wants lawmakers to erect regulation only it can afford.and other problems. so its not as perfect as evolution.But back to the point of its utility, if it ceases to serve us is it really good anymore or are we worshipping a memory an ideal.No Im not suggesting scrapping capitalism Im suggesting understanding it sreves us we not it. what is the higher good is the good ofthe nation, Nick land may indeed be correct that AI robots could have perfect paperclip capital economics but who gives afuck what is the point of that, hes a retard as a philospher and this BTW is an example of my objection to cog elite snobism i may be a 132 IQ fitter and He a 160 philosopher but I get without humans there is no point to his philosophy. And this brings me to the point the good that we seek is the good nation the nation that preserves us in a fashion that is as healthy and satisfying as possible, of course things like capitalism and HBD contribute to that preservation satisfaction and health, but they are systems we are the point. being cogelites we like to get into admiring the machine for its beauty but lets not forget its purpose.

                • viking says:

                  perhaps the most important point in case it wasnt clear from the violence portion is it simply isnt sustainable to cut the 90% non elite whites out of their share of the nations profits at some point someone will lead them or they will on their own rse up and when that happens they will demonstrate that their superior violence is true ownership.Whether we like it or not as critics of democracy the people are sovereign.
                  as I have said elsewhere m skeptical we can ignore what seems a genetic predisposition in whites towards individual autonomy, an above average status for females, and an openness. the challenge is recognizing the root of these traits and figuring how to direct them in the current environment. Ill add if possible- i have said th entire project of devising a sustainable civilization for creatures with 100m- 100k year old traits may simply be impossible.
                  I think the cathedral is a good example that democracy can be bypassed and elites allowed to do as they want, I would modify democracy allowing only tax paying white males the vote and replace leftist cathedral mandarins with sane people and change the state religion to something more like nat soc less the soc.and a bit lighter on the fascism. but basically a proud future looking united volk seems basic i think we all had that once.

                • Cavalier says:

                  >No I wont concede that people dont deserve a fair wage.

                  When anyone uses the phrase “fair wage” you know that he’s about to try to reach into your wallet.

                • Cavalier says:

                  >But one last old school thought on ths point. so are you equally concerned that other corporations also attempt to influence lawmakers in their interests and that those interests are equally divergent from what you like to imagine as the ideal austrian economy at galts gulch?

                  Power is as power does.

                  >If so how do you explan your preferance for one type of corporation over the other?

                  Capital is high status, labor low status.

                  >Now its true they can be temporarily oppressed but that never been a good move because theat presents a source of violence to a usurper.

                  “Meet the new king, same as the old king.”

                  >men should hold shares in the nation

                  Labor is kind of like a share in “the country” in that labor is a commodity and men can exert their control over that commodity to wield power. This is where your working-class rackeetering collusion comes into play.

                  > Now without getting into the weeds of how capitalism is as undermined by “capitalists” as much as socialists, and why and how to correct.

                  No weeds necessary. Capitalism is undermined by capitalists seeking state intervention to secure their power. Aspirant capitalists crow about free-market competition because they’re hungry and want to seize a piece of the pie; established capitalists want state-sponsored monopoly because they already have the pie and want to keep it, and as established capitalists have more power than aspirant capitalists, capitalists as a group need to be coerced into free competition.

                  I can’t really parse the rest of your jibber jabber, and the stuff that I can takes me 4 or 5 times longer than normal to read.

        • peppermint says:

          It’s true that they’ll blame Trump, no matter what, for anything. So what Trump has to do is figure out how to manage the collapse in a way that turns dhimmicrats against each other. That’s what Jim says he’s doing with this.

          • viking says:

            I think muh collapse is one of the jew moldbugs biggest lies. Its what he uses to justify the neo reactionary passivism.The entire point of the globalist project is their can be no collapse because everyone is in the game, anyone who tries to short the cathedral to any serious extent is quickly dealt with. Sometime they have their trades nullified sometimes they get a FCC investigation or their IMF loans get held up or they get a color revolution. This is why the chinese russia thig is so important the sino soviet are attempting an alternative and thats not allowed the arabs tried that and look what happened to them

            • Oliver Cromwell says:

              “I think muh collapse is one of the jew moldbugs biggest lies.”

              Absolutely. The world is full of stable shitholes. You can slide down the tree from US to France to Brazil to Egypt to Zimbabwe and regard it as normal and stable. It’s rather the norm than the exception. Argentina and Zimbabwe used to be multiple times as rich as they are today.

              • pdimov says:

                Brazil, yes. Egypt and Zimbabwe, no. Egypt is being propped up, but nobody has the resources to prop up America.

                • Oliver Cromwell says:

                  Zimbabwe had hyperinflation, lost its currency, starvation. It also has the same president it’s had since “independence” in 1980. No political collapse.

                • Cavalier says:

                  Zimbabwe’s political power center is located somewhere in Cambridge, Mass.

                • B says:

                  If the US disappeared tomorrow, assuming that nobody attacked Zimbabwe, I think the regime would be stable.

                • jim says:

                  “Assuming nobody attacked the place”

                  I am quite certain that if the US collapsed tomorrow, Zimbabwe would soon follow. Recollect that Zimbabwe made war on Botswana, whereupon it was revealed the Zimbawean army is worthless against an army with a moderate number of white officers. Absent the US, there is nothing to stop Zimbabwe from being conquered by pretty much anyone. Absent the US, I would form a real estate consortium, get rid of most of the existing population, and develop the place, except that someone else would likely beat me to it.

                • B says:

                  Yes, fine, like every other African regime, the place is completely dysfunctional and the military sucks, so would be easy pickings for outside militaries. Not the point. Point is, it’s capable of protecting itself from internal threats.

                • Cavalier says:

                  Zimbabwe would not be stable. Nor would anywhere else in the world. Apparently you do not know the meaning or significance of the phrase “world reserve currency”. Allow me to explain: it means that if the dollar winks out of existence, every currency backed by the dollar goes with it. At best, the result is a short period (several months to a couple of years) of complete chaos (in civilized white countries). At worst, complete implosion (possibly even in civilized white countries).

                  In either case, both Russia and China would go on tremendous expansionary sprees, rolling their tanks through a goodly part of the world. Germany would probably gain and maintain its sovereignty, becoming the head state of what’s left of “the West”. Most of the Third World would quickly devolve into all-out sectarian war, their leaders, no longer backed by “foreign aid” and “the international community”, instantly deposed.

                  Israel might uniquely benefit, as it has a very healthy agricultural economy, is very near enormous strategic reserves of oil, has a formidable stash of nukes (thank the shooting of JFK), and would suddenly find itself spiritually unencumbered by concerns for “human rights” and all that crap; in the intense chaos of the power vacuum following the disappearance of the US, Israel would probably become an outright regional hegemon in short order, and if it could get occupy and get its nuclear umbrella over Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, and Kuwait, or some combination thereof, it would also become a Great Power.

                  Zimbabwe might be stable in the sense that things might get worse, even significantly worse, but not look very much different.

                • pdimov says:

                  You could make the argument that Zimbabwe has already pre-collapsed to a point where it can’t collapse any further, hence stable.

                  But there’s no way America could reach Zimbabwe’s “stable” state without a collapse. Or even with a collapse.

                • B says:

                  >Apparently you do not know the meaning or significance of the phrase “world reserve currency”.

                  Where would I know a phrase like that from? I’d have to have the brain power to read Zero Hedge articles. So, you’re saying that in the absence of a stable dollar, Zimbabwe would…experience financial instability?

                  >In either case, both Russia and China would go on tremendous expansionary sprees, rolling their tanks through a goodly part of the world.

                  The world is not a board game. Countries have cultures and national characteristics. This would be behavior highly uncharacteristic of Russia and China.

                  >Israel might uniquely benefit

                  Yeah, we’re in a bit of an anti-fragile position. Not to mention that with the collapse of the cultic center of the world religion (Hollywood,) the only reasonable alternative left would be Judaism (unless Islam or animism are your bag.)

                • jim says:

                  the only reasonable alternative left would be Judaism (unless Islam or animism are your bag.)

                  Judaism is suffering from the same problems as Christianity, differing only in degree. Orthodox Christianity in Russia, however, is undergoing a recovery, though it is still in a bad way.

                  If you had the will to reach out for the Dome of the Rock, the will to think about the changes necessary for Judaism to once again become the state religion of Israel the way progressivism is now the state religion of Israel, the will to think about returning some aspects of Judaism to the way they were when Judaism was a state religion, the will to think about what Judaism needs to do and be when it has the state and the rock, then you could say that Judaism is in fine shape and looks to outlast Christianity.

                  Your problem is not that you do not have the temple. Your problem is that you don’t actually want the temple.

                  But the future I predict for Israel is Venezuela with a gay parade. Judaism will remain permanently in exile, even though Jews are no longer in exile, and Ashkenazim will find Israel becoming alien and hostile to them as they lose their grip. In the end, Israel will likely finish what Hitler began. You know what happens to market dominant minorities.

                  You say your non Ashkenazi co-religionists are fine, and no doubt they are, but they will be less fine once people like them, rather than people like you, control your religion.

                  You not only need an undemocratic Jewish state religion, you need an undemocratic Jewish state religion controlled by Ashkenazim in the line of Aaron through the west.

                  And if you had that, then Judaism would indeed be a viable religion, the only surviving one.

                • peppermint says:

                  Zimbabwe already collapsed. Saint Mugabe failing was embarrassing to old leftists, so they ensured that he would remain in power.

                  With Saint Nelson Mandela dead, it is now possible to criticize South Africa, quietly.

                  If only James Earl Ray had waited a year, MLK would be a joke instead of a saint. Nevertheless, in the future we must have statues in the honor of men who did the wrong thing like him, Timothy McVeigh, and Dylan Roof, simply to insult our enemies.

                • Anonymous says:

                  >Not to mention that with the collapse of the cultic center of the world religion (Hollywood,) the only reasonable alternative left would be Judaism (unless Islam or animism are your bag.)

                  You really have it for Christianity, don’t you? Lol. Doesn’t even make sense, given its resurgence in Eastern Europe and spread in East Asia and Africa, and the fact that it’s still “there” in Europe. US can disappear; Christianity will stay.

                  What a weird, biased, condescending conjecture.

                • B says:

                  Christianity’s been done for since before Nietzsche and Carlyle pointed it out. Collapsed under the weight of its own contradictions, and its core constituency stopped believing in it and started LARPing. Then quit LARPing too.

                • pdimov says:

                  “This would be behavior highly uncharacteristic of Russia…”


                  “the only reasonable alternative left would be Judaism”

                  … and LOL.

                • B says:

                  LOL all you want, but Russia has historically not been much of a colonialist country, except when it came to sparsely populated lands immediately next door.

                  It set up client states to its west occasionally, and does not seem to have made much of a profit doing so.

                  Even when its soldiers marched to Berlin and Paris the first time, it never seriously considered annexing Germany or France. That’s back when they had a serious birthrate. Settling their own backyard and exploiting its natural resources was enough of a project.

                  Its Soviet adventure, where it would create client states all over the world, was incredibly ill-advised and unprofitable, though I’m sure reading the reports of Ethiopia’s glorious victories in Ogaden or whatever made the Politburo geezers feel a strange rush of blood in their withered nethers.

                  It would be very out of character for the Russians to up and conquer Africa and start colonially exploiting it.

                  As for their Christian revival, let’s just say I have doubts about its depth and earnesty.

                • pdimov says:

                  “It would be very out of character for the Russians to up and conquer Africa and start colonially exploiting it.”

                  I agree with that qualification, but if that’s the claim, how can you then argue the same for China, which already does this?

                • B says:

                  China projects trade missions and diplomacy. Not armed force. This is also very characteristic of them.

                  This fantasy where countries which have a culture and worldview that emerged over thousands of years just jump through their own ass and start acting like imperial England is ludicrous.

                • jim says:

                  Tell it to the Tibetans.

                • Reactionary Oriental Libertarian says:

                  “Tell it to the Tibetans.”

                  Ya we don’t need more affirmative action populations who have to be sustained by massive transfer payments once there’s no need to keep Cathedral troops out.

                  The PRC, like the Cathedral, is a government at war with its citizens. If the Ming dynasty did not permit Chinese colonialists until forced to do so, the PRC is for sure not going to allow it.

                • pdimov says:

                  “China projects trade missions and diplomacy. Not armed force. This is also very characteristic of them.”

                  I can only say that if we witness the American collapse, you’ll be very surprised.

                  The world will be very different when American soft (and hard) power disappears. It’s so pervasive now that everyone (even the wokest individuals) take at least some of it for granted.

              • Reactionary Oriental Libertarian says:

                There’s no way things can be stable because the Cathedral is depleting genetic capital at an alarming rate. You are thinking that the US can survive a hyperinflation and losing 50% of its GDP, but there’s no way it can recover if the genes aren’t there. I wouldn’t be surprised if IQ is dropping 1.5 points in a decade. Another century of Cathedral rule and Dominicans will be a market dominant minority in the U.S.

                • Garr says:

                  Upper-middle-class Brooklyn neighborhoods (Park Slope, Carroll Gardens, Cobble Hill, Brooklyn Heights) are full of small White-looking children. (Some are half-Oriental, and Viking thinks that the apparent Whiteness is really mostly secular-Jewishness but I don’t think so; they look like little English lordlings to me).

                • viking says:

                  not to quibble but as a newyorker I have to say puerto ricans are definitely smarter than dominicans

                • Garr says:

                  PRs are usually Whiter; many seem to be maybe 75% White, 15% Taino, 10% Black. I can’t distinguish Blackish PRs from Dominicans, though.
                  (But because PRs are smarter they’re also more politically angry, just as BLM street-energy seems to come from half-Blacks, while with the full Blacks you just have to worry about being non-politically stomped for fun.)

                • Anonymous says:

                  Hey Garr, as a mischling, how do you reconcile within yourself the sexual puritanism you’ve inherited from your Anglo side and the sexual excitation (or “neuroticism”) you’ve inherited from your Jewish side? It’s an extremely interesting question because when it comes to sexuality, no two nations are further apart than the people of the whorehouse (Jews) and the people of the chastity-belt (Anglos). Polar opposites.

                  Of course I don’t expect a vivid and detailed description; just your general feelings about the issue as someone who can see things “from both sides”.

                  If you’re not half-Anglo, obviously doesn’t apply to you.

                • Garr says:

                  Hi Anonymous. Have you read Tom Jones, by Fielding? If not – it’s a really good mid-18th Century novel, set during the Bonny Prince Charlie invasion, and published only a few years after it. Everybody’s having sex with people they aren’t married to, including in bushes, or scheming to screw or be screwed by someone, or to convince X to rape Y in order to prevent Z from possessing her. Oh — have you read Point Counter Point or Eyeless in Gaza, by Aldous Huxley, the English Dostoevsky? Everybody trapped in hopeless sexual ruts — frenetic, desperate sexual activity everywhere in sight. Wait, how about Kingsley Amis and Iris Murdoch? Same there. (Jim also testifies to his own sexual intensity, which apparently has a playfully domineering tendency, and I take it that Jim isn’t a Jew, although his best friends probably are; moreover, Lion of the Blogosphere has reported that Chateau Heartiste is Dutch, although maybe that’s just a Jewish lie.) (Peppermint replies: “Nobody cares about novels by Dead White Males, faggot.”)

                • Cavalier says:

                  >Hi Anonymous. Have you read Tom Jones, by Fielding? etc. etc. etc.

                  Top fucking kek. 10/10 comment; would (and will) read again.

                • Anonymous says:

                  All well and good, but you’re taking exceptions to the rule among Anglos, and comparing them to the rule among Jews. That fact of the matter is that libidinous Englishmen have always been few and powerless, relatively speaking, while libidinous Jews are numerous, really ubiquitous, and were it not for fierce resistance by Anglos, sexual mores and legislation today would look dramatically different.

                  Long story short, Anglos resent Jews for releasing them from the chastity belts. They want to get back in, and to strengthen the locks. And are succeeding, hence, you get sent to prison for “possessing child porn” if your girlfriend, aged between 14 and 16, sends you lascivious lewd pics of herself. You may be allowed to fuck her, but not have videos of it. The conclusion is that Jews should go to Israel and let the Anglos enjoy their blue balls.

                  Oh, and “human trafficking” is a hoax just like pizzagate.

    • Steve Johnson says:

      “Other times I could offer insurance but it would not cover their preexisting conditions or the reoccurrence of particular illnesses.”

      My house burned down yesterday – can I buy homeowners insurance that covers my pre-existing condition?

      • viking says:

        Yeah we get the point but the other point is are you really really willing to le people who have no money die from whatever, do you really really think most people are cool with this.
        So the problem is what level of care will we give to the indigent how do we get the non indigent to not fake indigence,
        Its a vast and complicated problem because for instance niggers and spics are usually indigent and need way for medical care. So one solution is get rid of the niggers and spics.Then ask the question over again.
        another problem is your answer might depend a lot on how much it would cost you. And that is really complex, why does med care in USA so expensive even without niggers and spics. BTW nigspics actually do use a different door and get worse care often they actually use a different hospital in the slum with nigspic third world doctors and much for jims idea

        • Oliver Cromwell says:

          You let people die of not forcing them to eat right and exercise. You let people die of niggers but complains when they die of school shooters even though way more die of niggers. Media chooses which deaths matter.

          • viking says:

            no Im in favor of any kind of shooting, school shootng nigger shooting any shooting is good with me. what I think youre trying to say is I am squeamish Im not. But i am a pragmatist, and i think others are.And i think nick lands faggotry is equally unrealistic, Elysium cant exist in real life , and as for his post humanism even stupider. I think we need and would be wise to have an ethno state and in an ethno state elte whites would cultivate both culturally and genetically the less gifted whites so we would have little need of culling through junk food.
            that said yes dysgenic culture should be eliminated but its not like we have too many whites just badly managed whites and yes all humans elite and non could benefit from a little eugenics, but when some of you drift off into this most whites are really niggers meme I kind of think you might be crypto leftists cause thats really what they are like and why some whites are in such poor shape.-and no im not a natsoc lefty or even a hateful racist just understand only one race can win the universe and think mine most deserves it and in any event its mine so the prime directive says to fight with mine.

            • Oliver Cromwell says:

              America as a whole is OK with runaway gang violence. When I was in New York some black kicked me because I would not stand aside for him on the metro. Wouldn’t be tolerated in the UK; you (Americans) tolerate it.

              America is not really OK with school shootings even though they’re irrelevant.

              America as a whole is OK with incompetents managing their own lives because All Men Are Created Equal even when their management turns them into diabetic blubber farms.

              America as a whole is not OK with people who spend their income on a new truck instead of health insurance being left to die.

              You make these choices. You can make different ones. Mostly it’s just a matter of conditioning which is largely the point of neoreaction: whoever controls the conditioning has more political power than whoever controls the legislature or the army.

              • viking says:

                sounds to me like you tolerated it. several mornings a year i get on the train about 530 am and find a nigger has sprawled out over several seats and i unceremoniously use my foot to remove him.Ill admit this is not as common as it should be but even in our cities nigger discipline is still alive and well.However besides niggers being pretty dangerous,you have to worry about the authorities. you may kick the niggers ass but you will then be locked up with all niggers.anarcho tyranny probably the only reason the civil war is not a hot war yet. combatants will be sold into nigger slavery if caught.

                Yes we are an armed nation and intend to remain so despite elite objections, so no we dont get all worked up over the statistically insignificant school shooting by whites, the constant nigger shooting nigger issue doesnt really effect whites which is why whitefags feel safe outlawing guns.Until the left felt bold enough to betray the police two years ago we dealt with nigger violence pretty well.As well as we could short of killing them all. like the rest of the white world half our population are wreckers, so we are fighting a race war and civil war with our hands tied.
                The people who wrote all men are created equal meant to say aristocracy is a stupid antiquated, and inefficient form of government and must go.As far as that they were correct and those of you who interpret the moldyjewism as monarchy are mistaken, Monarchy can and should never be restored.

                as I have told you before people who buy trucks instead of insurance pay a high price because they have things to lose, so they rarely do that.niggers and spics have nothing to lose so they get welfare and if they are able will ruin their credit.whites smart enough to buy trucks are smart enough to be cultivated into much more by a competent elite, instead the elite is doing its utmost to weaken the white trucker because hes a threat to their power.
                Frankly I dont know what youre going on about england is much more cucked than the US, your women only fuck niggers now which is rare in the US. The only sign of life I see in england is you haven’t the full on affirmative action, but you were able to escape responsibility for the nigger slaves problem you created- BTW thank,s that was really a brilliant idea nigger slaves who would have thought.

                “You make these choices. You can make different ones. Mostly it’s just a matter of conditioning which is largely the point of neoreaction: whoever controls the conditioning has more political power than whoever controls the legislature or the army.”
                Not sure where youre going with this non sequitur
                Im not a choice maker on the policy level, my choices were an attempt at exit in the 90s which proved futile. currently I can go full Brevik or wait and see and prepare for a civil war.I think preparing is the best course.
                The point of neoreaction? Im not sure it has a point its chased its tail for a decade now, it may be a lost cause.I had hope for it years ago.Thats not to say it may not turn out to have helped, nrx latched on early to pacifism monarchism and other useless wastes of time, and spends a lot of energy trying to impress each other. Its doubtful you can compete with the cathedral on mind control, any day they are going to simply outlaw hatespeach and they can flip the switch on any blog they want.The cathedral is not going to collapse from fiat despite the fact they ought to globalism locks all the shorts into the casino they cant cash in their chips or even place bets the cathedral objects to, any crisis will only be used by cathedral to take off the gloves. despite war being a long shot in the end it is the only shot. If any of the larps NRX imagines really threatened the cathedral they will go to war, this is the thing about violence it not propaganda is the lowest common denominator and always will be.Because power is always tempting enough to resort to violence. so while there are certainly secondary methods of maintaining power at some point violence is the basis of property right. This is one reason landian elysium faggotry larps are not possible you needn’t socialize with proles but a healthy prole population is the foundation of any nation.
                war against the cathedral ought to be carefully planned it would have many aspects including propaganda espionage sabotage false flags technological warfare economic warfare and its unlikely at some point we could escape actual firefights.There is no possibility of a sound nation that is not at least an ethno state if not eventually a biologically re-engineered specic state. The non whites are here to enforce the cathedral they are gong to be used for violence, and beyond that going to have to go for us to function at a profit. frankly I think eventually we will have to wipe asians off the earth as well but thats another problem today we simply need to expel them with the other niggers.
                That said i dont think at this point framing this as a race war is useful above a certain level andat first i would actually start by playing the races against each other, first nigger against spic and jew against arab. Then white and nigger against jew. then wipe aout the niggers. of course this is off the cuff we need think tanks to war game all this instead of the nrx faggotry we have.

      • c23 says:

        The problem here is that health insurance is not just insurance – it’s also your negotiating tool. Here’s how it works – healthcare providers ask for an outrageously inflated price for their services. Insurance companies tell them that they are getting a much lower price – maybe half to a fifth of what they asked for. If you have no insurance, you pay the outrageously inflated price.

        If we had a transparent pricing system, health insurance would just be for catastrophes, like car insurance and homeowner’s insurance, and would be rarely used. As it is, it’s an essential negotiating tool for anyone who uses health care at all.

        • viking says:

          yes this is one of the problems, what you omit is why. the opaqueness s to hide the cost of niggers.An open system would reveal things we dont want revealed.This is why private care needs to be completely separated from free care. private care can then be completely open and youre correct the cost of private care will be 1/3 of what it is today
          free care can then be run not as government subsidized private care but as government run healthcare no medicaid scams. no paying for expensive private facilities and employees its all from ground up bare bones free care and the cost will be crystal clear because it will cost what it costs and voters will not be calculating how cuts to that cost will hurt them.

          • Cavalier says:

            No, it actually has nothing to do with muds; rather, the healthcare scam ‘why’ is very much the same as your steam-fitter racket ‘why’.

            • viking says:

              your “economic theory” seems to be prices are set by according to potential for violence. Interesting since that would agree with my (and moldbugset al) position that property rights ultimately comes down to it as well. In which case i have to ask why are you objecting?
              I dont know on what basis you think steam fitters are over paid, I have worked in finance, the arts, small business,and all sorts of miscellaneous jobs and none struck me as more deserving of the wages than my work as a tradesman.I suppose its the union thing, but all you can do is sputter when i point out there is no more market distortion in trade unionism than any other racket from banking to whatever.As i write large when i say we must remember that the usefulness of capitalism is its service to us people, no not ‘the people’ just humans. I dont know of any perfect trades contracts economics, no one would be incentivized by such clearly perfect deals.hard working intelligent skilled yeoman will be rewarded well by an intelligent government they are in fact the salt of the nation, they are far more than steam fitters fireman etc. I can not seem to make most nrx understand this more fundamental conservatism than mere capitalism, without triggering you. Culture before economics.reality before ideas, theoretically I can revel in the purity of anyn rands galt gulch for much of my life that pure capitalism cause and effect was more or less my good- i get where you are coming from. If it were actually possible for it to work out like the novel i wouldnt have a problem with it. But Its not, today’s capitalist are mostly the worst of the cathedral.The left are idealists now increasingly nrx is really just another group of faggot millennial hipsters wanting to experiment with slightly different ideas on western people and whats left of its civilization.I know god damn well a group of fitters and a group of your freinds who is going to be more fundamentally reactionary, who will have the actual virtues of courage loyalty duty etc who will have more children who is personally more conservative who always got race and gender realism rather than had some jewboy gently introduce him.
              No trade unionism is not the most efficient or fair system of finding the price for labor, maybe even not the best way of finding the best price of rewarding yeoman. It is or was before niggerfication a halfway decent one already up and running. In theory i could vaugely imagine others whch in the theory would require all sorts of major changes to the economy law culture, But like this ridiculous idea of reverting to monarchy, is just a waste of brain time. Thats not to say its impossible to find a better system but that its really easy to criticize and offer up half assed idea than to actually build a better system.Trade gulds have been around for 1000 years of white history probably longer unofficially its a starting place im comfortable defending against snide remarks and no alternative. every year nrx sounds more like whiny leftists

    • peppermint says:

      salesman likes being a government aid worker because it’s high status and feels good to give other people’s stuff away for free, doesn’t want to go back to considering whether and how its possible to make money off the prospective customer as part of the process

      cry me a river faggot

      most of the people I know are either covered through their employer or went through the government website and never talked to a salesman at any point. i would expect a salesman to offer to cover a business’ employees.

  10. Dave says:

    If middle-class Americans don’t like a law passed by Congress, they can repeal it with a simple trick called “Irish Democracy”.

    Just cancel your health insurance and throw all your medical bills in the trash. That would force doctors and hospitals to demand payment up front at reasonable, transparent prices. After giving them some of the money you saved by not buying insurance, you go straight in to see the doctor while indigents wait outside in the rain.

    In case you arrive at the hospital unconscious, you should wear a bracelet with the phone number of someone who can make decisions for you. A well-dressed man pulled from the wreck of a late-model Mercedes gets full treatment without question — hospitals will discriminate if the alternative is bankruptcy!

    You have a moral obligation to pay X dollars by Y date if you freely agreed to do so. But debts like property taxes, hospital bills, and child support, where someone else decides how much you owe after it’s too late to back out of the deal, are just another form of ass-rape.

    • peppermint says:

      …which is why the penalties are assessed when people go back on healthcare now. Costs of services are competitive secrets and no one will feel bad for a White man who doesn’t have a policy by choice dying.

      Healthcare needs to be burned down and boomers need to die.

      • Hidden Author says:

        You don’t care about the boomers in your own family?

      • viking says:

        Im guess youre about my youngest daughters age and Im guessing your Boomer dads paying 25K a year for insurance that covers your millennial ass.
        Being about mid boom I can sympathize if your gripe is the hippies naivete turned into 70s nihilism. But If like my great generation Dad you think the hippies are the root of all leftism , youre mistaken. The rot started long before. The harder you look at where the rot actually started the less clear it becomes. I know since you see the hopelessness of christianity you get this to some extent.So why the boomer gripe is it some millennial pose?
        Whenever I say this i trigger you guys and am assumed a crypto lefty. But ill say again the seeds of leftism seem to be deep in euromans genome. And some of those traits and cultural penumbra of those traits like christianity served us well for a time. The HBD chick theory of hajinal trust is somewhat accepted.But I think we ought to look at some other things particularly the propensity for democracy and feminism.Of all the peoples in the world we seem to have these the earliest and most developed even perhaps are the only people who have them. Its too simplistic to say they were invented by the jews 100 years ago.It may be true that they were weaponized then or that the situation changed and they were prevented from being retired then but the jews and cucks stopped it.But i think if you go way back in our history you find these things in us.How might this have happened.I think one answer is the geography and climate demanded greater effort from this raised the cost of allegiance or too put it another way created the free man. It also required women work and sometime fight much harder than easier environments demanded. They would have noticed their men needed them and demanded more autonomy.The propensity for euroman to have female leaders seems unique, this might be because the greater overall freedom of men meant changing monarchs was much less stable and could lead to greater bloodshed so to avoid the inefficiency a wife or daughter might be allowed to rule to maintain the status quo.These are just ideas. But i think its not arguable we euros have several traits; trust, autonomy, higher female status that have marked us. there may be others im just beginning to think about this.
        If its true denying our own HBD traits will not serve us, better we recognize ourselves.The Cathedral and history shows traits can often be redirected to new purposes, recognizing these traits n ourselves does not require we embrace democracy feminism and multiculturalism. It means we understand our genetic triggers, how they came about,How and why they once served us, why they stopped serving us, and how they might be aligned with, and put in service of instituting a new culture that is not morbid.

        • Cavalier says:


        • peppermint says:

          it’s possible to fix indoctrination, but not as possible to fix a lifetime predicated on the indoctrination. Boomers and genxers are largely irremediable until we capture the state, which will take at least ten years, by which time the boomers will be well into the dying phase. They are not worth arguing with.

          Most millennials, because the system offers us so little, are at least willing to entertain anti-system propaganda, but many of us are cucks. The post-millennial kids, a.k.a. generation zyklon, are the future of our race and our duty as millennials is to protect them from boomers and genxers and foster their development so that some day they can call us cucks.

          • viking says:

            Pep while Im really glad youre woke and all I cant help but notice leftism increases every generation. Boomers can actually remember less leftist times and the stark difference gives our leftist impulse pause.Its true though i wonder what generation will finally say enough, or whether they ever will.I dont think voting patterns in any nation support your thesis that millennials are going to be the reactionary generation. That not to say it wont happen youre young and things may deteriorate rapidly from here. The other problem is I have never seen a less manly generation even when we had hair like jesus the christ cuck wore it , your entire generation seems to be physically smaller thinner a nd frankly i can no longer tell the fags from the straights so even if there’s a war i cant see you winning it.-No offence. That said i sure hope Im wrong

            • Oliver Cromwell says:

              Previous generations split between progressive and conservative; the new generations split between progressive and reactionary.

              There are more and harder progressives but also far more reactionaries. Conservatism – a bit less, a bit slower – was and is worthless.

              • viking says:

                democrats in the 60s were more reactionary than the half dozen millennial reactionaries will ever be.

                • Oliver Cromwell says:

                  Democrats in the 60s weren’t reactionary at all, they were just conservative on some issues that progressives hadn’t got to yet. The progressives being, mostly, them.

                • Steve Johnson says:

                  Except for the actual Soviet agents, right?

                • Oliver Cromwell says:

                  The Soviets were conservatives on a number of issues that Democrats in the US have, subsequently, gotten to.

                  I tend to favour the Moldbug hypothesis that Soviets were Democrat agents, and the even more cynical hypothesis that they were collapsed when they started to break free of the Democrats.

              • viking says:

                In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever

            • peppermint says:

              40% of millennials are muds by legacy media and government statistics. Consequently the cathedral claims that 40% of millennials support government intervention against hate speech.

              I don’t know why we’re all so skinny or fat. Maybe xenoestrogens or phytoestrogens or something. Lots of mothers (and fathers) of millennials fed their children tofu because it was supposed to be healthy.

              Most of us, in my area at least, are cucks. The difference is when you talk to a millennial in the right way and discover their concerns. Millennials are concerned about the lack of careers that can support a family and pretty much everyone I know IRL expressed this politically in the only safe way, with Bernie.

              Boomers and genxers are by and large unwilling to express any discontent and will respond with formulas programmed into them by Chomsky and Howard Zinn.

              Too many millennials still feel like they have something to lose and feel guilty about having had an intact family and grandparents and primary school principles from a generation in which Whites didn’t feel guilty for being White and men didn’t feel guilty for being men. If it was just up to us we would probably die out in quiet despair.

              Generation Zyklon is coming. They are answering the call to be the greatest generation our race has ever produced.

              • Anonymous says:

                Generation Zyklon boys are disproportionately tranny, though.

                • James says:

                  Which is why they’re the generation to do it. The trannies are self-segregating into the degenerate loser gene pool.

                  The more freedom we give leftists, the more they use it to destroy themselves. State-within-a-state solutions amongst the non-cucked will, within just a couple of generations, lead to full blown independent states as nobody with any sanity will bother voting, bother listening to the President, bother joining the military, bother with any of that.

                  This is what happened in Rome, incidentally. The first ‘Barbarian King’ of the Franks was actually the grandson of a Roman senator.

              • Alf says:

                Millenials are a lost generation. They need to respect selfish boomers, sense that they are not receiving what was promised to them, but have smartphones and drugs to entertain them.

                Millenials are generally leftist, but it is either a blind fanatical leftism or a sort of wary leftism, unlike the self-convinced leftism of the boomers. Like P-mint says, get to know a millenial and you’ll see a person full with concerns and doubts.

          • Reactionary Oriental Libertarian says:

            What planet are you living on, Peppermint?

            Millennials are the most insane leftists. Look at how many of them supported Sanders, 65 genders, BLM, polyamory. It wasn’t long ago that I saw a white millennial post an essay on FB about how he loved his polyamorous girlfriend. The Boomers and the worst generation definitely were the worst, because they gave away teh country to the leftists, but I don’t think millennials are better.

            • peppermint says:

              milennials are the worst, except for the entire DailyStormer and TRS staff and movement, their friends and the large numbers who will say what they are required to say and don’t mind hearing stuff that contradicts the official line

              • viking says:

                I tried to explain this before without triggering to no avail but it applies to your boomer thesis. I said in a sense leftism was inevitable. By which i meant given the information at the time, the past history and current situation at the time and white evolution leftism was bound to be tried,it was bound to occur and make sense to the elites of those ages.In that comment i got into things like small arms and communication invention,demographics, etc etc
                But in a micro scale it applies to the boomer argument. First let me say there was no need for edge lords in the 50s, at least it really didnt seem like it.And its absurd to say even white millenials are divided between reactionaries and cucks, we could probably count the entire millenial reactionary cohort by sight.
                It made sense in the 60s/70s to think niggers women etc were capable of much more even human level achievement. we didnt have the benefit of (current information) we didnt even know many niggers maybe one or two, we saw sidney poitier and bill cosby acting pretty ok, and we saw some pretty ugly shit coming out of the “redknecks” we didnt have much science. And the risk seemed limited because there were not many non whites and we had control.Immigration was really sneaky, those of us in cities didnt notice because places like NY were pretty multicultural even back then, and we didnt pay much attention to the flyover also the flyover didnt really notice for a long while because for a long while it was limited to certain areas then seemed as if you r area was just the unlucky are then all of a sudden it was everywhere and too late.Also there was actually quite a lot of opposition from the world according to garp to camp of the saints Oleana and bonfire of the vanities anti PC was as active then as it is now but then as now few were willing to throw bombs while it still seemed it could be worked out.I left NY for idaho in spring 92, a week after the feds laid siege to weavers cabin a few miles from the one i was building. NYC was in flames I could plainly see it but many couldnt they had been slowly boiled and had adjusted to homeless shantys in the parks. and having to leave cars unlocked so windows would not be broken.What needed to be done in 1900 1930 1950 1976 1984 2017 is all the same white men need to rise up and kill very few could even see how surely that is the only solution until very recently even now of those like yourself myself VXXC who see it clearly how many have we killed?By that measure we are all cucked.When I left in 92 exit seemed possible when i got to idaho it seemed like it would remain as it was that the entire region would remain the 1920 logging communities they still were. That didnt last long at all, only a few years later mark furman moved in followed by half the LA police dept retirees and their cucked neighbors who quickly set about trying to recreate cali in idaho, its not easy and they may never succeed but have made a lot of progress as spencer’s mom found out.
                It really might be laudable to go full Brevik but its not really even clear if that would improve or worsen the chance of success ultmately. Oh sure 10,000 Breviks might work but one might simply up the lefts game. I remember thinking a couple years after weaver, while McVeigh was surely justified after ruby ridge and waco to kill all those fed babies it was probably going to set us back, and it did we got the anti militia movement and the assault weapons ban and basically law enforcement turned on rural white men which VXXC seems to gloss over. I suspect hes one of the good cops.
                This is why while I advocate overthrowing the cathedral by any means and say that will almost surely at some point mean hot civil war, i dont think Brevik is the way to go at this point, in fact tricking some nigger into an anti brevik would probably do more good. i advocate really developing a intelligence community war council etc that equals theirs, and systematically studying how to take down the cathedral against such odds, and also how not to repeat history once in power.
                This is why i critique capitalism despite being fundamentally capitalist and want to explore why we are so trusting feminist socialist individualist, so we can create a government that while solves the moldy jews criticism does not fly in the face of our own HBD, thus being impossible. Sure there was a time when I was say a randian galtist, I can can live like hardcore lack of empathy that but I dont think most of us can I think there’s a reason cuck christianity flowed so easily into the forests of europe and not so well elsewhere.

                • vxxc2014 says:

                  to Viking
                  from vxxc
                  vxxc ‘I suspect hes one of the good cops.’
                  cops are family mind you.
                  Most vets/cops/MIL are from same family now.
                  That should figure into any serious calculations.

                  Weaver/Waco–those weren’t cops those were feds.
                  Also after Oklahoma City and even Waco the Feds calmed down. Say what you will about OK/City it had a chilling effect.

                  Frankly they just allowed the volume to get turned up by the Clintons, got burned and learned their lessons after Weaver and waco. The SS or even Mukabrahat they are not.

    • B says:

      Hospitals will not discriminate, even if the alternative is bankruptcy. Many of the ones on the southern border have gone bankrupt because their emergency rooms are used as primary care providers by illegals.

      The first issue is, a hospital is not a decision-making entity. Hospital administrators are. And while a hospital eventually going bankrupt might be unpleasant for them personally, being sued for discrimination and investigated by the government would be devastating.

      The second and larger issue is, as you allude to, the cost of medical care in the US is insane. It’s vastly inflated, and determined by an opaque mechanism. An ambulance ride costs something like $500-1000. That’s for a ride in a van, with two guys making $18/hour asking you some questions and taking vital signs.

      On my last trip to the US, I got bit by a spider and started having some nasty symptoms, so went to the hospital with the spider in a jar, to make sure it was not a brown recluse. They would not tell me how much it would cost up front. The bill, for about 5 minutes of a doctor’s time, 5 minutes at a triage station, and a phone call to the local entomologist, was $600. No system can survive an oligopoly setting its own prices for a service you need and are forbidden to seek elsewhere.

      • viking says:

        would have cost 2600 in nyc but here the thing you’re doing the math wrong,
        What is the cost of the entire medical edifice divided by the patients. In the usa we build whatever is current state of the art becuase who knows someone important may end up there or you might get sued, its really expensive to run these facilities the govt will only pay so much for the poor and elderly the rest have to make up the diff.eventually the rest of the world gets this technology at a better cost. in the meantime …..

        • B says:

          That’s the sunk cost fallacy, on its head. The edifice was built on government money and endowments. The marginal cost of treatment has to do only with how much they think they can squeeze out of you/a starting point for negotiations with an insurance company/the split between the people who get the bill and chuck it in the trash and the ones who pay it.

          Had I gone to a local trauma care center, formerly a Pizza Hut, the bill would have been the same. What were the costs of erecting that edifice-rolling the salad bar put the back door?

          • viking says:

            I wasnt suggesting it was austrian econ. Im just pointing out the cost has nothing to do with what he thought it should ( something to do with free markets) I would gladly concede your alternative price model but when it comes to one health and one is faced with a monopoly Im not sure what ones willing to pay is really important you will pay what they say because you have no choice really.And i think Im correct that they set their prices roughly at what their expenses are including amortizing the facility less what the govt gives them and just enough more to plausibly claim to be a for profit if they are in fact for profit.

      • Jack Highlands says:

        Yet the Skype is the first to object when you point out that the amberlamps ride costs a paying customer the G in order to cover all the free rides it provides to fat n!ggers using it as a taxi to get to the ER for a BCP prescription or a million other trivial reasons.

  11. anon3281 says:

    “People say that the very old are costing us a bundle, that the very sick are costing us a bundle. No, it is Democratic Party core constituencies that are costing us a bundle.”

    Where did you come up with this? I am a physician. I think there are plenty of costly bundles to go around. Do you realize how many times nursing home patients get admitted with sepsis to the ICU? The bill for such a stay is astronomical. It can be several times per year. I can’t quote any stats, but I’d bet money the final year or two of life is inordinately the most costly. By a wide margin.

    I’m not defending the other side by any means, they clearly play a role as well.

    Sometimes I’m just confused how bloggers can pontificate to no end on endless topics. It sounds authoritative but I think you’re just wrong.

    • jim says:

      The most expensive five percent of those over 65 cause twelve percent of healthcare costs.

      The price of Obamacare indicates that a small group is causing about seventy percent of healthcare costs, and it is not the very old and sick.

      That total health care expenditures in Singapore are remarkably small indicates that Grandma dying of the ailments of old age is not the problem. The problem is incentives for young healthy people, for that is the big difference with Singapore.

      To reduce healthcare costs, we need to do what Singapore does, and what Singapore does is stop poor people from abusing the healthcare system.

      Many countries, notably Britain and Denmark, have taken alarmingly drastic measures to control end-of-life costs. It makes a difference, but does not make a big difference. A few countries, notably Singapore, have taken the unthinkably politically incorrect action of taking reasonable measures to control bum, vagrant, and drug addict costs. It does make a huge difference.

    • Alf says:

      The costs for elderly are indeed the most debated among physicians, but physicians have a knack for debating politically correct topics. They talk around the sensitive subjects, similar to how Americans have built around black inner city ghettos instead of actually addressing them.

      The real healthcare costs are leeches abusing the system combined with a totalitarian bureaucracy, both things for which one may very reasonably blame the Democratic party core constituents.

    • jim says:

      A casual glance around the healthcare system in California shows that nonwhites receiving healthcare massively outnumber whites. The fact that we have no statistics about the proportion of costs going to democratic party core constituencies – those living on crime and welfare – tells us that those statistics would be horrifying.

      • Alf says:

        In Holland healthcare costs and the nonwhite population are both increasing, but healthcare costs are rising visibly steeper. leeches explain a large part of the costs but not all.

        The other half of the problem is that progressivism has infected healthcare, creating absurd incentives. Every department of the hospital is at war with the other departments for a slice of the budget and allocation is not done by utility but by perceived holiness.

        The most insane way I observed this is in child psychiatry, an industry of millions. Child psychiatrists use progressive thinking to ‘cure’ children with drugs. At best it is a placebo industry, at average modern child psychiatrists are making children sick.

        • viking says:

          Yes i just commented my my health plan already had all the obama care requirements yet it still went up 25% since ocare. we have not only the niggers health care to pay for but they cost in many other areas which causes inflation generally. and as you point out leftism raises costs all over the place like require more free types of care or higher wages for caregivers.In the states we have many fewer participating in work force and those who have earning less because nigger immigration and outsourcing so while their is inflation in things like housing taxes real estate and education we have wage deflation from immigration and offshoring. not long ago in USA almost all jobs has a healthcare plan, much less common and less valuable plan. also people are living longer and treatments are new and more expensive, the quality of life and value of these treatments may be dubious they are never the less costly

        • > Child psychiatrists use progressive thinking to ‘cure’ children with drugs.

          Are you talking about ADHD? ADHD is real, even for adults. Peter Falk did a great job in the role of Lt. Columbo regarding how it works for adults. And yes, drugs do help. Maybe US doctors are over-eager to prescribe Ritalin to kids, I don’t know, here in Austria even an adult can only get Ritalin if the non-stimulant, simple noradrenaline reuptake inhibitor Strattera fails. So here only really serious cases get Ritalin or amphetamines. Strattera is OK, it just clears up brain fog and makes one feel a little excited, I would not be too worried prescribing it to kids. And it really helps.

          This sort of thing is actually something both progressives and conservatives tend to dislike, the first because they think it is not kids the problem but schools that want to make them actually learn something instead of just being creative all day. The second because they tend to be fearful and “drugging kids with amphetamine” sounds scary enough.

          I an speak of first person experience, ADHD is absolutely a thing, and it is better to find out at childhood than be 40 and realize your generic “absent minded professor” atittude has a name and a cure.

          The problem is modern culture is so unaware of ADHD that we mostly still think it as “childhood learning disability” when actually Lt. Columbo was a perfect portrayal of the adult version of it, and very often it there is no history of learning disability at all.

          • Jack Highlands says:

            Suppose your ideas on ADHD are correct (and I am not saying they are wrong). Like most ‘diseases’ that are not cancer or infection, ADHD is simply a variant of normal, as individual members of the global pool of humans, now 7 billion and growing, ‘tries’ to adapt to the usual changing planet while reaching late adult life with 2.1 children.

            In other words, if ADHD is so common, it must either be a fad or a combination of normal personality traits that must be desirable under some circumstances, and undesirable in others.

            I’ll just concentrate on one key component trait: impulsiveness, since that’s one the HBD theorists behind the Alt Right have best analyzed.

            Impulsiveness is one of the most important traits separating foragers, especially male hunters, from settled people, especially peasants with very boring lives. It is one of the main ways in which the bulk of the human population was vastly different in behavioral genetics in 1700 AD from how it was in 8000 BC. Such evolutionarily rapid changes rarely occur de novo: it is much easier to build on genetic components already there. In the case of impulse control and a suite of traits that went with it such as selfishness/hoarding, modesty of display and others, those components are easy to sum up: femaleness. Female gatherers are behaviorally more like peasants than male hunters are. That is why to this day ADHD is far more common in boys: the 10,000 year process of feminization is incomplete. That is also a major reason why the dissident right, which tends to prize masculinity, dislikes the ADHD paradigm.

            Specialization of warrior castes, the evolution of entire Steppe races best suited for war (eg Mongols and our own Aryan ancestors) and conscript armies ensured that the ancient masculine behavioral package did not disappear entirely. But the last 300 years of industrialization have been particularly hard on it. Modern life rewards impulse control, at least in people of average IQ, even more than peasant life did. Thus the modern war on ADHD.

            We on the Alt Right suppose that if the White race is to survive, we will need to call again on the ancient masculine behavioral package very soon, and events in Berkeley, Austin, NOLA, Paris, Athens etc suggest that is true.

            • peppermint says:

              This is why we must not fuck with the natural variability of the White genome. We don’t know why it exists and why it works, but obviously it did.

              ADHD, autism, and the explosive growth of faggotry may be related to xenoestrogens and phytoestrogens in the environment and food supply. They may also be related to schooling. Non-ADHD kids do what they are told. ADHD kids get social status for acting up and no one actually cares about grades. School encourages kids to only care about things for up to 75 minutes after which they are permanently abandoned. What psychological traits does that encourage the development of? School grants social stairs for memorization of the most facts about a subject. Autists win there.

              Preschool demands that kids put up with being separated from their parents and do what random adults tell them. Autists win. Schools often come up with bizarre systems of rewards and punishments. Normal kids usually accept rewards. Autists don’t like being manipulated regardless of how much the administration and parents tell them it’s for their own good.

              ADHD is portrayed as winning character traits on TV and the only way Whites can be masculine, while responsibility is for cucks. Weaponized autism is winning the meme war.

              • Anonymous says:

                Preschool is just a pretext for womyn to get back to their “careers”.

                Preschools, schools, all of it should burn down to the ground with no survivors. In their place, some alternative education + employment facilities for the top 10% of WHITE MALES, at any age between 8 and 16, should be established.

                Gas the pedagogues (pedogogues), anti-infantilization war now.

    • B says:

      Reading this blog is like the Gell Mann amnesia effect, but applied to an alt-right blog.

      Everything sounds very reasonable and authoritative, except the posts written about areas that I am personally familiar with. Since the author pontificates on everything from fighter jet design to cryptography to economics to marital relations to religion to Japan to bronze age history, most posts sound very reasonable and authoritative.

      • jim says:

        In areas where you and I are both familiar, your alleged recollections lead me to conclude that you are lying scum.

        • B says:

          In areas with which I know I am familiar and you claim to be familiar (basically, all areas with which I am familiar,) you seem to be describing a different galaxy. I’d call you a liar, but I don’t think that’s the case. Rather, you perceive reality the way you read books: you have a model in your head and simply don’t perceive anything which contradicts it.

          This is exactly what happens in a leftist’s brain, by the way. He honestly perceives fictional black doctors and presidents as accurate representations of reality, and innocent unarmed teen gangbangers as non-representative, stereotypes, etc.

          • Anonymous says:

            The pot is calling the kettle black; pretty sure we’re all INTJs here.

            • B says:

              I don’t know what that is.

              I’ve made about three major changes of course in my life over the last 15 years. It would be difficult to do that if I were not able to perceive those parts of reality that don’t fit my mental models, and rework those models accordingly.

              • Anonymous says:

                Yeah… “Friendship ended with compfy secular Judaism; now religious Judaism as practiced by my immediate ancestors is my best friend.”*

                What a “mental leap”.


                • B says:


                  I never practiced “secular Judaism”, whatever that means. We grew up thinking of ourselves as Americans who happened to be Jewish, in the same way that the neighbors thought of themselves as Americans who happened to be Irish/Polish/Italian/etc. We did not practice any religion, celebrate any holidays, etc. We had the standard complex of American Northeast popular beliefs (memes, if you want to call it that.)

                  My ancestors going back at least four generations were non-religious.

                  Anyway, whatever makes you feel good, man.

                • Anonymous says:

                  Okay, so divorce, aliyah, and teshuvah, right?

                  I really don’t see anything here that requires mental re-modelling. Admittedly, I haven’t been keeping up with your lifestory.

                • B says:

                  I’d prefer not to put the life story on here. But that’s not the breakdown.

                • Anonymous says:

                  Very well. But I haven’t seen you changing your mind about anything, unlike Jim and others.

                • B says:

                  I haven’t been convinced on any issues we’ve discussed here. There’s a lot of bombast, and not a lot of proof. Lots of preaching to the choir.

      • Oliver Cromwell says:

        Since you choose to spend a lot of time on here, and a lot of time engaging with the host specifically, could you concisely summarise your areas of agreement with him? If there are none, could you concisely explain why you choose to spend so much of your time talking to him?

        • B says:

          I agree with him that the current Western setup is hosed, because its philosophy is toxic and deluded. I agree with him that it will change one way or another, whether through catastrophe or conscious reform. I agree with him that the philosophy of the West needs to come into alignment with a deeper reality. I think these are all areas where he would agree with Moldbug, btw.

          Even if I did not agree on anything with him, I would spend some time on here, because when the host disagrees with me on basic and obvious things, it’s a good exercise in going to sources. Sometimes I learn new things (often.)

          And of course there is that bottle of whiskey (though I think he’s learned from experience and will not bet with me again.)

          I wish I could productively speak with more of the commentariat, but most of them are incapable of thinking/speaking in anything other than memes picked up from the chans/Twitter. “No ur wrong u Jew cuck” is not really a start point for a productive conversation. It’s Eternal September for NRx…

    • pdimov says:

      “I can’t quote any stats, but I’d bet money the final year or two of life is inordinately the most costly.”

      I remember seeing stats for the final year of life. It was indeed inordinately costly. This creates the implication in people’s minds that the main cost is old white people. But I suspect that the formulation “final year of life” has carefully been chosen to imply that, and that the truth is somewhat different.

      • jim says:

        Final year of over sixty fives is about twelve percent of health care costs.

        Which implies that what is really expensive is the final year of a twenty year old illegal immigrant morbidly obese alcoholic gay indio felon dying of type II diabetes, AIDS, and multiple stab wounds.

        Total Singaporean healthcare expenses are way cheaper than ours, and the big difference between our system and the Singaporean system is not healthcare for the elderly, it is healthcare for the poor.

        The basic problem is that some poor people, quite a lot of poor people are sick, and have plentiful time on their hands to abuse a healthcare system that gives them attention, human contact, free food, and lodging.

        • Turtle says:

          Your claims are verified by some medical workers, but they are quiet or silent. I blame them for allowing these problems to worsen, year after year. I of course also blame politicians and the administrators who ruin hospitals, but my own doctors are bad too. Once I was wastefully prescribed an inhaler for a cold, which I never used. There’s tons of stupidity we normally assume is malicious, because ‘professional’ people are stupider than we realize.

          One doctor I know totally lies about medical costs, saying they’re ok, not rising too fast, so there’s no problem. He’s smart otherwise, but thinks I’m gullible or something. I asked him about many hospital closures, which were caused by indigent patients overwhelming their finances, and he didn’t reply. He doesn’t seem to care, and yet he wants my support for his industry. It’s unpleasant.

        • Turtle says:

          Another issue is that low-talent/ skill people, whether they work hard or not, are less able to provide for themselves. It’s good that work is healthy, literally keeping us medically well, and having a job does keep one too busy for hypochondria. Most people are able to provide for their own healthcare, if they are only required to pay for themselves and their immediate families. That’s important.

          But what % of people are mentally incapable of earning enough $ to meet living expenses, in particular healthcare? And what about the disabled? I am sure charity should be enough help for them. I don’t know how many of them are around.

          I found a nice summary which shows, with CDCP statistics, that Jim’s implied, informal statistics are off- most people with AIDS are not indios. They might be jobless and parasitical, but they are typically American-born.

          “The study finds that women and blacks were most likely to be infected. HSV-2 prevalence was nearly twice as high among women (20.9 percent) than men (11.5 percent), and was more than three times higher among blacks (39.2 percent) than whites (12.3 percent). The most affected group was black women, with a prevalence rate of 48 percent.”

          I like Mike C.’s research here. He’s good at explaining.

          • peppermint says:

            you know, most Americans would love to provide for the disabled and incompetent, and I would too, provided that people on government assistance or with immediate family on government assistance are prohibited from reproducing.

  12. ron says:

    I don’t understand, why not just repeal Obamacare altogether? The entire thing is clearly a power grab and a scam. There is absolutely no reason why any individual state cannot pass their own healthcare version, they don’t because they want to pass the buck. So what is the great victory in “compromising”? this is the equivalent of compromising with a mobster to only have your daughter raped 3 times as opposed to 5.

    • Glenfilthie says:


      Just as the Donks have racialized bank lending practices that lead to the subprime/housing crash – as Jim notes they’ve done the same to healthcare. Although Jim does not say so – the patients ‘going through a different door’ because they do not pay…most will be blacks, illegals and other vibrant and diverse human trash.

      Trump is betting that enough elderly baby boomer liberals are confronting the realities of their political correctness. Now that they themselves have to stand in line behind vibrants and marginal for health care, I suspect reason is going to break out in short order.

      Trump is making notes to see how all this flies and if it does – you can bet more will be on the way.

  13. bob sykes says:

    “some morbidly obese alcoholic”

    Nowadays, that guy has to get treatment; it is a cultural imperative. The only question is how to fund his self-induced (really? not an addict? free choice?) malady.

    Unfortunately, limited resources means that cuts have to be made elsewhere, and health care rationing ensues. One hopes that it is rational, but the UK’s NHS leaves room for doubt.

    The only way that the drunk is abandoned is if Evolutionary Psychology’s K revolution comes, which would be bloody in the extreme.

    • peppermint says:

      The treatment should be to impound him in a monastery / jail where he gets to grow his own food, bake his own bread, maybe we’ll even let monks use cannabis, maybe they can grow enough to sell and be self-sustaining, and be supervised with alcohol and drug use forbidden. He can walk away if the abbot says he’s clean, but if they have to pick him up and put him back he’ll have to stay longer.

      Mental hospitals already do some of this. However, at the mental hospital, the inmates don’t actually have anything to do, which is actually harmful.

  14. Pepe minion says:

    > Trump probably on track

    > …offers remote possibility of success

    That is quite a contrast, between your previous post and this. I agree with the latter. To state it dispassionatly, reasons have emerged to doubt the sincerity of Trump’s campaign promises. There are more reasons to doubt the possibility of success even of a good faith attempt. Would it not be a miracle to see the trends since 1965 moving in reverse and the US government start preferring the interests of its own people?

    Yes, it’s too soon to write off Trump as a cuck. It isn’t too soon to face the probability – I think it is a fact – that there is no hope of preserving anything of the historic US through the democratic process. The cathedral is moving towards crushing all open dissent (example[1]). Trump can’t do it for us, blogs and memes can’t either. It’s time to prepare something else.


    • vxxc2014 says:


      We need to do our Duty.
      Our duty won’t be easy or bloodless and it shouldn’t be.
      We need to earn this – whatever we keep, whatever we leave we must EARN.

      Something else:
      Defend the West in 4 steps.
      1] Man Up. Dick punches solve this> [BANG-THERE. YOUR MANHOOD]
      2] Organize ‘self defense’ cells/squads local based so grounded well.
      3] Obtain Police neutrality. See/Hear/Speak no Evil is sufficient, even ideal.
      4] Act.

      Only do these 4 things and we shall have Victory.
      Key is step #3: and they’re only waiting to be asked. Also in America the Left has literally shot the cops into our arms. Respect Police, defer to them when they assert and then put it to them we have right of self defense…and that politics [includes war] is not their place.

      Not the cops job to reverse generations of gimmedat folly and cowardice.
      That’s politics and that’s men’s work.
      We inherited the Wind because of voting. Men never got anything by voting, the vote was given to men who fought.
      Democracy is Infantry or looting. This ends the looting, time of the soldier rises.
      so soldier up, man up and act.

  15. Cavalier says:

    No Trümpenreich via erosion.

  16. I don’t know the details of the situation in the US but your post sounds sensible. Generally speaking healthcare is typically misunderstood, perhaps due to a tradition of using a “mechanic” model: something breaks in you, doctors fix it. So it seems the demand for healthcare is objective. In the past, perhaps it used to be but it is outgrowing it. Now it is more and more about optimizing you.

    To give you an example, my (gov-paid European) doctors tend to be really disinterested when I tell them here and here it hurts when I try to deadlift 100kg. Their attitude is a thinly veiled “why the fuck do you even need to do that”. In their mind a patient who can walk without pain is healthy enough, it is not their job to make hobby athletes. So I got the message and looking up sport specialist doctors on the private market.

    The point is, yes, we cannot define that anyone who has problems ripping up 100kg off the floor is objectively unhealthy and in objective need of healthcare. Because why 100, why not 200, or 50. But by the same logic we could not really define completely objectively why being unable to walk is an objective need of healthcare.

    Healthcare, beyond the obvious life-saving interventions is mostly optimization, like going from the highly suboptimal can only walk with a cane range to the can run a marathon range and it is more accurate to say we want a certain amount of it, not need.

    Which means the private market should make most of it.

    I dig the arguments for a large part of healthcare being under government control. When you are unconscious and in an ambulance car you cannot make informed consumer decisions, fine. That belongs to the government. But when you are a guy walking with a cane and you want -not need: want – to walk without, you can make an informed customer decision which doctor seem to have the longest track list of success doing that. It is simply references, you don’t need to understand the biology of it, but you can understand how many happy customers rated him five stars.

    • Andrew E. says:

      There have long been consumer protection laws in place that prevent blatant price gouging such as charging an unconscious customer a much different price for the same product or service as a conscious customer with time to shop around. And fixing an unconscious customer involves mostly the same products and services, with known prices, as those used on conscious customers. So there is no paradox here.

  17. Brian says:

    What will happen in places such as California, where the impact of Trumpcare will probably be blunted. Will health care costs continue to rise? Will there be health care rationing? Will we find euthanasia, particularly of the old, practiced more openly?

    • Mister Grumpus says:

      Yes. The generation that passed the convenience-murder of unborn infants is about to catch their own boomerang.

  18. Mister Grumpus says:

    Thanks for cutting through the cruft for us again. Very much appreciated.

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