Listen to what the enemy does not say

Exactly. Knowing what women want doesn’t make one good at delivering it or even the faux version of it.

Alf you’re a Dutchman correct… If you are 6’3 or 6’4 like most dutchmen going to have a very easy time with women almost regardless of any other factors.

I think it is a white pill, which is why I’ve been pushing the “human zoology” angle lately. Lots of guys are bad at picking up women, but most have it in them deep down to keep their women around once they get them. I refuse to believe that 80% of men are pussies who want to submit to “mommy gf”.

Or maybe thousands of years of patriarchy have devolved us, in the same way that we’ve outsourced the ability to digest raw meat to fire, outsourced the job of keeping us warm from body hair to clothes, etc, and civilized men have generally lost the ability to keep women in line.

If that’s true, incels and even average men will have to wait around until some vicious atavistic barbarian seizes the state and reinstitutes formal, institutional patriarchy. Will that happen in your fertile lifetime? Probably not. So you’re back to rediscovering the human zoology of mating and internalizing it.

Obsessive spectator sport fandom is also reminscient of the Roman Empire in its late degenerate stage (albeit late Rome was probably worse along those lines then where we are now with routine extremely bloody sports riots, the Vandals opening the gates of Roman Carthage unopposed because they knew when the chariot championship race was going on and knew to have their agents open the gates and charge in then etc).

Playing them is fine… obsessive watching them for people who aren’t successful gamblers at it is cucked.

Plenty of men wearing their B caps and shirts don’t get laid or have a monster — physically — for a wife or girlfriend. What’s your point?

Cominator can correct me, but I don’t see him arguing for prohibition of such an outlet for tribalism. Merely that this particular outlet for tribalism is low status. High status are religion or warfare, including attached activities, like parades.

Much more sensible are individual competitions, like wrestling.

Rooting for highly-paid professionals — who can be bought and sold to the competitors’ teams — going at it is just silly.

College team sports make more sense, btw, both due to the scale and the career dynamic. But even here professionalization is turning spectators into cucks, who pay outrageous tuitions, just so that their daughters get fucked by Biff Bulkington.

I don’t see lies, merely gut reactions so far.

I’ve seen so many autistic people here in Boston who passionately argue about sports statistics, even memorizing actual numbers, all the while not willing to acknowledge someone w etiquette and still being damn leftists/“centrists”, that my gut reaction is to declare them faggots and cucks.

Disliking it doesn’t have to define someone as unable to have social interaction. I come from a world where team sports is/was proletariat activity. Gymnastics or ice skating, individual sports, etc would not be. But, I suppose, obsessive watching of it or any other thing, like Hollywood movies, would be.

Those Muslim guys you showed are rooting for their national team, which is definitely a step up from a professionalized, highly paid sports club spectatorship, a phenomenon with roots in the West (that everyone is trying to emulate now, as high status Americana). But even in that case, arguably, Taliban and old-style Wahhabism has a point: they banned those activities.

You are correct in a realpolitik way: criticizing something like this as lame openly does hamper establishing new social connections in a milieu where talking about sports is a social glue. However, this is a blog also about objective truth, not just social pick up game. And objectively, watching highly paid and laid big gorillas go at it while spitting their chew and contributing your own money / time into is, well, a form of cuckoldry. And I don’t hate cucks. Ok, I’m lying, I do!

And if you ever dealt with really elitist, educated women, they are usually not obtained via your buddies that you chat with by the water-cooler about NBA. Maybe better luck in an actual gay club.

“Disliking it doesn’t have to define someone as unable to have social interaction. I come from a world where team sports is/was proletariat activity. Gymnastics or ice skating, individual sports, etc would not be. But, I suppose, obsessive watching of it or any other thing, like Hollywood movies, would be.”

True!

“You are correct in a realpolitik way: criticizing something like this as lame openly does hamper establishing new social connections in a milieu where talking about sports is a social glue. However, this is a blog also about objective truth, not just social pick up game. And objectively, watching highly paid and laid big gorillas go at it while spitting their chew and contributing your own money / time into is, well, a form of cuckoldry.”

Doubly true!

“And if you ever dealt with really elitist, educated women, they are usually not obtained via your buddies that you chat with by the water-cooler about NBA. Maybe better luck in an actual gay club.”

Triply true!

1. Sports-doing should be promoted more than sports-watching, but you can’t have much of the doing without the watching, and it’s all social glue, so no point trying to diss any of it.

2. It’s a myth that athletics is overvalued and IQ is undervalued in the sexual market. It’s true that status is measured differently by men and women and that needs to be corrected, but it is also a false narrative that the status quo is Athletics Good, Brains Irrelevant.

Women like high-IQ men almost as much as they like athletic men (of similar height, status, wealth or whatever other characteristic they select on). Certainly IQ is easier to display than physical strength, in most social settings; isn’t that the whole point of “game”?. The main difference is that it’s nerdier and higher IQ women that gravitate toward smart men, and that a woman is likelier to suppose, at first encounter, that a large strong man has the preconditions to satisfy her sexually. The first is eugenic, and for the second, nerds can acquire sexual experience and social skills, and if necessary improve their visible physical condition, much more easily than an athlete can raise his IQ.

Youre from Mass too right Eli… If “Biff” was from here he’d understand why we thought fandom was cucked…

I mean, come the fuck on.

https://e00-marca.uecdn.es/assets/multimedia/imagenes/2018/04/09/15232752408096.jpg

Are you saying they’re all gay?

Because if that’s what you’re saying, then the situation in the US is even worse than I thought; “society” has already collapsed completely, people no longer posses non-atomized instincts, and basically – it’s over.

I don’t recall being ‘fanatical’ about it. I recall writing 2 posts complaining about Diversity in Sports and advocating for an international ethnicity-based participation policy (in retrospect, should’ve realized that this is not a very exciting topic), and being told in response that “watching games is cuckoldry.” I obviously don’t share that kind of sentiment, which to me is highly indicative of a serious case of social dysfunction – and given prior familiarity with the individual telling me so, my gut reaction seems to be accurate.

I too once had half an hour, nice interaction with a retired (but young) Red Sox player and his sister. Completely accidental. I was very impressed by how sharp he was. Not in a learned way, but social ability. And his sister, albeit divorced and w a couple of kids, looked good too.

I don’t always agree with him, but shaman is 100% right on this one. Let normies enjoy normie stuff. People who are overly critical of normie pastimes tend to be edgelord reverse NPCs (“popular thing bad!”) or just weirdos.

It’s generally a good idea to familiarize yourself with popular hobbies. Gives you something to talk about at the water cooler, helps build connections and it could very well help you get a girl through social circle game.

We need to foreigners from state and quasi state jobs. We do NOT want to exclude them from science and math (saying no jews or asians allowed in all of science would have very negative consequences) which should be based only upon merit.

Not Tom: contra you, I do.

Any activity that brings up status of gorillas for the reason of them being good at certain type of physical dribblery vs other random working citizens, including of engineers, is, in my book, a negative for society and a reflection of degeneracy, albeit there’s much worse kinds nowadays too.

Playing games is wasteful, but at least it doesn’t lead to the above. Although, nowadays, they have managed to transform video game playing into *professional* sport also. But it’s certainly many orders of magnitude less profitable, and the kinds of people who are successful and high status at it are more tolerable, in my book.

This whole “normie” vs whatever distinction smacks of parochialism antithetical to the very basis of a complex, well functioning society.

Inclusive to gorillas, exclusive of people who don’t want to be gorillas. Not good.

Now, if as a result of a loss, a team member gets executed (the inverse of MVP), I’ll start watching professional sports, will even pay the big bucks for the arena. Skin in the game, definite respect.

The Romans did this w gladiators.

We do not really want professional athletes to have high status and to the extent they naturally do we want to suppress it in some ways.

Why? I see nothing wrong with skilled performers having high-status, and lots of money. Do they somehow threaten social harmony? Do they politically challenge the King or the High Priest? Do they spread heresy or harm the military?

Obviously, criminals and anti-social types should have low-status, because they jeopardize the delicate cooperate-cooperate equilibrium between productive citizens, in addition to doing evil deeds that is.

I see no reason why sportsmen should have low-status, other than insecure nerds feeling horribly envious towards them. Envy is a sin, and there is absolutely no reason why the popularity of athletes should be made artificially low by priestly design. To become successful in a certain field, one needs to have natural physical talent, but also the mental fortitude to put enough effort and dedication into it – this is an admirable and laudable trait, and a successful masculine athlete can make for a decent role-model. Plus, people enjoy watching them, and if you can’t explain why that is detrimental to society, then people should continue to enjoy watching them as much as they desire.

NRx is not supposed to be “Revenge of the Nerds: the Right-Wing Edition.”

Explain why professional athletes having high-status and lots of money is detrimental to society.

We need Isaac Newton to have the highest status.

You think like a leftist, that professional athletes having high-status will magically prevent 180+ IQ geniuses from also having high-status, as if they compete in a zero-sum game for the same status slot within the collective social hierarchy.

That is patently false.

Explain how Lionel Messi being rich and popular prevents Isaac Newton from having high-status, any more than Lionel Messi being rich and popular prevents Donald Trump from having high-status.

Don’t just tell us that it so – explain how it is so, explain how sportsmen deprive genius scientists of high status.

You can’t explain that, because it is a thoroughly leftist narrative. It’s a narrative concocted by (disproportionately Jewish) movie script writers who hold a grudge against the big kids who gave them wedgies in high-school. In reality, professional athletes do not lower the status of scientists, do not even influence the status of scientists. There is a priestly attack on science and genius, not an athletic attack or a capitalist attack.

The reason we don’t have Newton anymore is not because of professional athletes, just as it’s not because of evil capitalists or other scapegoats. It is because of priests intruding into the field of science, gutting it from the inside out, and wearing its rotting corpse as their skin. Also, it’s due to dysgenic breeding, dropping IQ rates, and selection for priestliness rather than for intelligence. You can’t blame professional athletes for it, but you most certainly can and should blame the progressive priestly class for it.

Blaming professional athletes for genius scientists having lower status than is ideally desired is leftism, and it is driven by envy and covetousness, like all leftist impulses.

You think like a leftist, that professional athletes having high-status will magically prevent 180+ IQ geniuses from also having high-status, as if they compete in a zero-sum game for the same status slot within the collective social hierarchy.

I was thinking the same thing – why would athletes interfere with the status of scientists? I’ll grant that women are in fact a scarce resource, and status is largely about women, but there aren’t nearly enough famous athletes for that to be a problem. In fact I seriously doubt that the average white woman could name or even identify a single pro athlete. It’s a highly paid profession, yes, but it’s not what I’d call “fame” exactly. I guess some players capitalize successfully on their job success and turn that into sexual success, but isn’t that what every normal beta wants to do?

Entertainers, now that’s another story. Many if not most of them are no-talent hacks that are only famous because of the Cathedral’s stranglehold over the industry. But as someone who now trains regularly, if amateurishly, I really have to respect the guys who make it into pro sports. I may not be interested in the sport itself, but these people aren’t “gorillas”, they’re insanely talented individuals who had to go through grueling training, collect minor and major injuries, eat ridiculously restrictive diets, push their physical limits on days when they’re still sore from yesterday and struggled to even get out of bed. They’ve earned their status.

If women pay too much attention to them then that’s a woman issue, not a sports issue.

I was mainly referring to the Thessalonica riot which was purely the mob angrily reacting to a boy raping chariot racer being punished for his crime.

The Nike riot was a lot more complex then overly high status chariot racers causing trouble. Theodora was certainly according to Procopius a woman problem unto herself and yet Justinian never would have survived the Nike riot without her as (all sources even those that hate Theodora agree on this) she was the one who convinced him not to flee the city (if he fled he would have lost power and then likely have been hunted down and killed).

Whores are of some use to men, nuns are not. Theodora should have been kept out of state business.

“I’m starting to think you want guaranteed access to young virgins just for doing basic research or writing a few dozen lines of compilable code.”

LOL I did not say that do not start acting like CR and putting words in my mouth. I said Isaac Newton needs to be high status.

And Bill Gates and Michael Dell had MONEY money helps with status but money and status aren’t the same, they never had the status of top athletes and Richard Feynmann didn’t either nor did he have so much money.

I want our Newtons, our Teslas and our Feynmanns to be able to go into a public place and have more adulation, more people wanting autographs and more women wanting to bear their children then entertainers and sports champions.

I’m not sure exactly how to do it but China and the Asian countries are a lot more like this.

I also literally have no idea who Messi is, soccer? Americans even ones who follow sports religiously have literally no idea who any soccer player is

See, you’re proving my point; you strongly feel like top pro-athletes somehow threaten the status of scientific geniuses, even while acknowledging that you have no idea who these athletes even are. Again, I’m asking you to explain just how precisely are Newton and Feynman deprived of the top spot on the social status hierarchy by pro-athletes, and you have no explanation other than simply repeating the claim that it is so, sans supportive evidence or logical argumentum.

And European soccer hooligans are part of why I think fandom is somewhat cucked. These people (the second a government gets in that is hostile to the left and won’t repress them with military force) should be going “brownshirt” on the left in their countries (and in Italy they’ve had some genuinely right wing governments) not rioting over sports games.

This is more autism, and I’m not saying that to “insult” you, but to elucidate the flaw in your thinking. Do you expect to live in an overly-political society? The answer is “yes,” as evidently you believe that everyone should be as fixated with parliamentary politics as you are, and look down on people with hobbies and pastimes and passions that aren’t political in the narrow, democratic sense. Hence,

“Why are these uncouth low-IQ proles so preoccupied with sports? If they were red-pilled supreme specimen such as myself, they would be obsessed with democratic politics instead. Pffft, stupid Euro-normies and their dumb apolitical activities, I’m so much better than they are, because I post fiery exterminationist fantasies on the internet and bring up the latest elections shenanigans in almost every post that I make, haha what stupid losers.”

I know that this will come across as “totally wild,” but consider the radical notion that there is more to life than muh presidential elections and parliamentarism, and that not everyone shares your hyper-political obsession.

This is not shaman telling you this; this is Moldbug telling you this. Literally, one of Moldbug’s most recurrent ideas of all is that democracy poisons everything by over-politicizing society, and that all citizens would be much, much better off with less politics, not more. Hence, having pastimes and passions that aren’t related to muh politics is a very healthy thing. Since most people aren’t mouth-breathing spergs, they tend to care about non-political issues also, things that make life actually worth living, you know? People have socially-healthy pastimes, and ridiculing them for not being as hyper-political is you are is grossly misguided.

If Moldbug had his way, there would be far fewer people like you in the world, and far more people who have absolutely no idea who the President or the King or the National CEO is, and who couldn’t care less about this arcane issue, since they stay off politics completely. No, soccer fandom is not cucked. Democratic politics are cucked. You have an upside-down understanding of how NRx wants to structure society. We want less politics, not more, and if normies are preoccupied with sports, or music, or any other non-political entertainment, all the better. Let them do just that, instead of taking part in demotic strife.

Normalcy is not a dirty word, and you shouldn’t be the mirror version of an SJW. NRx is not about Brown shorts; it’s about Clear shorts. Mass scale societal de-politicization; Exit over Voice. There’s a whole world outside of Pozton.

the tribal fanatical fandom of spectators

Again, there is no disagreement about “tribal fanatical fandom,” which none in this thread has advocated. The disagreement is about your position: that bringing up athletic performance, and indicating that one sometimes watches ball games, makes one a

Sportsball watching cuck

You are constantly going back and forth between a motte (“sports obsession is bad”) and a bailey (“watching team sports is a form of cuckoldry”). There is absolutely no disagreement about the former proposition; indeed, all obsessions are unhealthy and pathological – including, by the way, your own unique obsessions. The vehement disagreement is about the latter proposition, the bailey.

Stop arguing like CR. Nobody is disputing your completely uncontroversial motte; we are disputing your bailey, which bailey smacks of status insecurity and involuntary celibacy, as pointed out a number of times here, and which bailey betrays a spastic mentality that is detrimental, rather than conducive, to social success, including with women.

Okay, but I still think that there is no reason to look down on people who take an interest (of course, if not excessive and pathological) in ball games, just as people who take an interest in UFC and Bellator should not be looked down on.

And I still maintain that, when ethno-nationalism is the norm, the people who play for Germany should be real Germans, and the people who play for Italy should be real Italians. I don’t claim that this concern is a “top priority”; needless to say, we are currently dealing with much greater issues than the racial composition in team sports. But the White Nationalist complaint about niggers in sports — although it’s usually badly articulated, like most other things touched by these types — does have merit to it. Come the restoration, national culture should indeed be national, which means that the “ethnic blindness” that currently predominates in entertainment will to go.

Wignats are usually retarded, but even they can sometimes make a valid point. The problem with them is that they only see a small and not particularly important piece of the puzzle, and entirely miss the big picture. Well, that’s what we’re here for!

Female preference selects for General Butt Naked, and selects against men at the opposite pole.

Not only that, but female preference demands men fight and kill each other, as opposed to cooperation and competition.

Men with fantasies of mass violence should consider carefully whose agenda they are fulfilling. War is far less bloody and destructive when the fight is for dominance and the losers submit, but women want the losers to be slaughtered indiscriminately for their weakness alone.