Denazifying the Ukraine at Pokrovsk

According the PBS Frontline report, the Russians are dying like flies and losing equipment at a stupendous rate, yet strangely, they have a lot more volunteers and a lot more equipment than they did a year ago, while the Ukrainian army is shrinking dramatically. Odd that.

The Pokrovsk agglomeration (Pokrovsk, Rodynske and Myrnohrad) is a city bigger than Bakhmut — remember how long and terrible the battle for Bakhmut was.

But on August the fifth the Pokrovsk agglomeration had been trapped in a cauldron for a while and seemed to be collapsing quite rapidly, looked like it was going to fall in a few days. The Ukrainian battle lines were so thin that Russians could infiltrate through the front line to take out drone operators and artillery inside Pokrovsk, indicating that the Ukrainian front line in Pokrovsk was far more thinly manned than their front line in Bakhmut had been. And then the Ukraine rounded up its elite forces, the politicals, the Nazis, Azov, who have better pay, better equipment, and vastly better and longer training that the busified cannon fodder. These people have, until recently, not really had to fight Russians. Their main job has been blocking the retreat of the busified cannon fodder. Now they got hurled into Pokrovsk.

Suddenly the Russians found themselves fighting far more enemy troops, far more dedicated enemy troops, far better trained enemy troops, and far better equipped enemy troops.

This stabilised the situation, but did not push the Russian troops back. Ukrainian attempts to relieve the cauldron and push the Russian troops back had a terrible cost for the Ukrainians.

How terrible?

Well now seems like the Ukrainians are back to where they were five weeks ago. From which I conclude that most of those elite troops hurled at Pokrovsk are now dead or maimed. The layer of busified cannon fodder separating the Nazis from the Russians has for some time been getting thinner and thinner. Poles, Germans, and Moldovans were supposed to show up to protect the Nazis. They failed to do so. At Pokrovsk the layer disappeared.

Does this mean the war will end shortly with the Maidan government in Kiev dying in a fire? Probably not. There may not be enough Nazis to defend it, but neither are there enough conscripts to attack it. The logic of war is that Ukrainian army just quietly evaporates, and the Russian army then does what it pleases. Because the decision to expend the Ukrainians was not made in the Ukraine, it is impossible for the Ukraine to agree to peace. The Russians will just have to kill every remaining male. They are most of the way there, but there is still some way to go.

205 comments Denazifying the Ukraine at Pokrovsk

Bix Nudelmann says:

This is just horrifically ghastly.

Because the decision to expend the Ukrainians was not made in the Ukraine, it is impossible for the Ukraine to agree to peace.

It deserves a closer and sober look, how the interent, Starlink, etc, have made this horrible state of affairs possible. It reminds me of how President Johnson and the Pentagon were accused of micro-managing every minute detail of the Vietnam campaign, but at least they were roughly American. This is much worse, and portends an even more ghastly separation of power and consequences for next time.

Or rather, perhaps I’m seeing it exactly wrong. If those Ukrainian cannon fodder unfortunates only had some kind of unfiltred social media capability themselves, maybe this could have done very differently.

Also:

Poles, Germans, and Moldovans were supposed to show up to protect the Nazis.

What a sentence.

S says:

“This is much worse, and portends an even more ghastly separation of power and consequences for next time.”

The end stage is Stark’s War (2002 Jack Campbell) where soldiers follow waypoints set by out of theater officers and war is taken over by burecratization like the rest of society. I don’t think it will occur in the near future since the systems sole virtue is getting your own men killed and military effectiveness is back on the menu with Thermidor. The grunts who fought the global war on terror dodged a bullet that this technology and rot wasn’t as advanced two decades ago.

Humungus says:

“Does this mean the war will end shortly with the Maidan government in Kiev dying in a fire?”

Humungus is of the opinion that the aforementioned conflict existed to funnel monies back to corrupted politicians and remove people from the playing field.

It is inconceivable to join any military at this time, placing your life in the hands of psychos. Be yourself, do your own thing. Get a job you like, find a woman, etc…

Mossadnik says:

There are about 10 million people with significant Jewish ancestry in the USA, many of them are (or can potentially be) productive, and if you expel them to Israel, as I strongly advocate, it will be excellent for Israel and make it much, much easier for the USA to cut off the alliance (military or in general) with Israel and any involvement in foreign wars. Literally win-win. As an Israeli patriot, I support American paleo-conservative isolationists or restrainists or whatever this faction is called, so long as they don’t bitch and whine like bleeding pussies about fake mistreatment of poor innocent Jihadist Palestinians ABLOO.

Give me the kikes, Herr Hummus. I want the kikes. (Also we will build the Third Temple, and it will be none of your business, since we will be independent.)

Humungus says:

Thank you for your reply; however, we are writing about two different things. Humungus, is a reasonable man, but I cannot give what is not mine to give.

Mossadnik says:

Look, since Mohammedans don’t constantly attack America, you can afford to maintain Westphalian Peace with them, and I’ve never supported the neocons in any way, shape, or form. Israel, however, is under active Jihad by some Mohammedan factions (not the entire Dar al-Islam, by the way), and Westphalian Peace just will not happen no matter how dovish and pacifist Israel gets.

Sometimes you really, actually, for-real have to fight your enemies, because they literally leave you no other choice. Israel has to fight those Jihadists who target it, and possibly their immediate sponsors. At no point did I ever advocate for American involvement. Support us if you like us, don’t support us if you don’t like us.

I never said that you have to fight those Mohammedans who wage wars on us. You are far, far away from the Middle-East. I only say that we have no choice but to do so, because those Jihadists keep constantly attacking us, and will do so for as long as we exist, or for as long as they exist.

Pacifism is not right-wing and not Christian. I hereby use my non-existent authority to abolish and cast out Pacificsm – it is a demon. Peace is great; pacifism is a satanic heresy. I am for peace. I am against pacifism. Pacifism does not lead to peace. Again: this means we should fight our enemies. At no point did I ask you to fight our enemies.

Westphalian Peace is not pacifism!

We will continue to resist the Jihad that is waged on us by certain (not all) Mohammedan factions, with or without your help, because the only other options are dying slowly or dying fast, and we prefer to live. You should take inspiration from our attitude, and treat your sworn enemies (local Progressives) as we treat ours, instead of denouncing us for not sacrificing ourselves to the Demon Pacifism when assaulted by Jihadists.

No, fighting Mohammedan aggressors is not, in fact, being Literally Hitler. It is actually very different. Anyway, I do not support American involvement, and do not support the neocons. But I will continue supporting the IDF for as long as I live.

Daddy Scarebucks says:

Ok, but…who are you talking to? Did I miss the part where he said anything about Israel or Islam?

Mossadnik says:

To a very reasonable man.

😉

Mossadnik says:

Anyway, it’s an opportunity to elucidate the position on Pacifism. I consider it a satanic heresy, as it leads to the opposite of what it claims to lead to. And one can be principally opposed to Pacifism, without being a neocon who wants to invade the whole world. It’s also an opportunity to state that the “Peace Camp” in Israel is entirely demon worshippers. The Peace Camp is the Death Camp

I want American paleocons to understand the Israeli perspective. At time, it feels like some of them do not. But I seek to ally with them.

Humungus says:

“…it feels like some of them do not. But I seek to ally with them.”

Interesting. What is in it for Humungus?

My initial post was regarding Kiev, but you have framed this in a much different way.

What do you want from Humungus and what do you offer in return? Everything has a price and Humungus likes to barter, provided there is profit.

Mossadnik says:

What do you want from Humungus and what do you offer in return?

Now we’re talking.

What I want from Humungus is to not pursue pro-Palestinian policies that will inevitably lead to our annihilation. What I offer Humungus is an economically advanced and scientifically innovative State that is a significantly more valuable trade partner than Palestine could ever be.

Humunugus is Rough but Civilized. Israel is also Rough but Civilized. Palestine is not Civilized, and will never be. Should not the Civilized partner with each other? (This need not involve fighting wars on the other’s behalf, foreign aid, and all that.)

Humungus says:

I realize you’re speaking figuratively using the proverbial Humungus to mean warrior class. You’ve shifted the topic from Kiev to something else though.

On the topic of Kiev, my advice to young men is not get yourself killed. Not passivism, but cunning. A thinking man chooses when to fight and when to bargain with his adversary.

On your topic, which I know very little about I would need time to meditate. Generally speaking a warrior class should be paid in land and concubines.

Mossadnik says:

Generally speaking a warrior class should be paid in land

This is Biblical. 1 Kings 9:11:

(Now Hiram the king of Tyre had furnished Solomon with cedar trees and fir trees, and with gold, according to all his desire,) that then king Solomon gave Hiram twenty cities in the land of Galilee.

Trump Gaza also comes to mind.

and concubines.

On a heavy ketamine trip, I once envisioned myself as Queen Esther. I’m not a woman, a troon, or a fag, and I take it as symbolizing a certain historical role. How that relates to the quoted snippet, I’ll let you ruminate on.

Humungus says:

Not sure I follow you, so I’ll write more plainly. I understand you want to feel safe on your land from neighbors whom you see as a threat. You want the threat to go away, yes? And you want a warrior class to make that happen.

The warrior desires land and a woman that can provide him legacy of his own kind. You want your living space, the warrior does too.

Todays military, signs a contract and is paid. In essence they are civil servants with guns. If they do fight a war, they fight to survive. The warrior fights because that is what he is.

Mossadnik says:

Yes indeed. We have to replace our current ruling class with a new one — theoretically some can be “fired and rehired” if suitable — crown a King to whom the new ruling class shall be loyal, and put an incentive structure in place that selects for masculine red-blooded men for leading the military, and the country in general. All that is impossible to do when Progressivism is the state religion. But Progressivism’s power is in decline, so it looks to me, albeit the monster is far from dead. The priority right now, particularly in America, is to ensure that it keeps declining, does not resurge (ever), and ultimately to install a healthy throne and a healthy altar. Whether this can be achieved entirely Passively or not, remains to be seen, and likely will be seen in the near future.

Kelthorn says:

100 years from now, when History looks upon Putin and Russia regarding this war,[*deleted for not conforming to the moderation policy*]

Jim says:

History does not seem to remember 101 US invasions and and interventions Who today remembers Serbia, Syria, Libya, and the Congo? If History still remembers the Ukraine war in 2030, that will be a great accomplishment by Putin.

notone says:

[*unresponsive*]

Jim says:

You want to talk about Russia crossing internationally recognised borders, and Russia wants to talk about the US crossing internationally recognised borders, arguing that the endless, outrageous, and shocking US actions made the “special military operation” a necessary act of self defense.

Is the Russian position reasonable? Your unwillingness to know your enemy would suggest that it is.

flinco says:

[*deleted for not conforming to the moderation policy*]

Jim says:

Also deleted for being unresponsive.

In the course of this war, the Ukraine has conscripted one or two million Ukrainians. Where are they now?

And what are Russians fighting for? Why are they fighting? Is it likely that they would nuke the world rather than accept any of the “peace” plans proposed by their enemies?

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle

You refuse to know yourself, and you refuse to know the enemy. So will therefore succumb in every battle.

Address the state of the Ukraine, and the motivation of the Russians, and I will allow it through. What I will not allow through is your stubborn self delusion that is dragging the white race into nuclear self destruction.

unda says:

[*deleted for not conforming to the moderation policy*]

Jim says:

If you want to argue that Russia’s reasons for invading the Ukraine are wrong or invalid, I will allow it through. But you have to admit the reasons that they give for invading the Ukraine, in order to rebut or refute them.

If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.

Your refusal to know and refusal to listen is leading us to nuclear annihilation. I am not allowing this through, because it is likely to lead to the death of all of us.

If you will not hear and understand your adversary, one of you or both of you must die.

FrankNorman says:

What I will not allow through is your stubborn self delusion that is dragging the white race into nuclear self destruction.

I suspect that they know this. They want white people dead, and they think it’s funny.
And they are too stupid to realize that Russian nukes would kill them as well. Or maybe they just don’t care about their own survival.

flinco says:

[*deleted for not conforming to the moderation policy*]

Yul Bornhold says:

The Ukrainian war is an excellent opportunity for Mr. Bukele to get rid of his 90k imprisoned gang members. It won’t make him any friends in Russia but, if the gang members are eliminated, globohomo can’t release them back onto the streets in the event that Bukele is deposed. With this method, he could probably even get globohomo paying him to remove the gang members. Into the slavgrinder you go!

Karl says:

Toppling a government that still has a few defenders is very difficult for conscripts as they would have to act collectively and coordiante. What conscripts can do when there are only few bloackade troops is desert.

Maybe the Ukrainian army will evaporate now a lot faster.

Sher Singh says:

Any thoughts on the Afghan Pak border skirmishes?

Consensus seems to be that British India holds long as the liberal bureaucracy has air power.

My gut feeling has been that the subcon status quo is a result of Anglo American imperium.

New borders once that power fades from the region.

suones says:

Far more than a border skirmish. Paxtan actually had to use air power to hit interior Af. This is a classic Amerifag way to fight, as it generally goes against the “honour” of war. So it would seem it was a CIA-advised operation.

Strangely enough, I think this was cooked up by the Taliban themselves, even though Modi/Jaishankar played it masterfully. Af has been chafing under CIA-stan yoke for decades, and their Baphometanism is less of the “International Jihad” variety that PaxCIA would like to push them into and more of a thin layer around Pashtunwali, which is their actual religion. One day their Govt talks about securing Indian help for refurbishing Bagram airbase (PaxCIA would HATE this one weird trick!), which Modishankar are rightfully sceptical of. So then they propose a pact in blood to show they’re serious. To make it doubly certain, they sent a senior minister as hostage/negotiator (in the Bocchicchio mafia sense) to New Delhi, to prove their intent. Whatever OpSindoor may be presented as to CIA-states and their media, Af ground intelligence has come to the conclusion that Indian air power can neutralise Pax air power within a short time. And Af fighters are confident enough of soaking the sand with Pax land army blood once their aircraft are out of the picture. Af and Baloch response to OpSindoor has greatly increased my positive opinion of the Op.

Of course, Indian deep state aka bureaucrats can still fuck this up six ways till Sunday, but this is a golden opportunity for Modishankar, and is too good to pass up. An airbase in Bagram is worth a SHITTON of sanctions, short only of nuclear war with the USA.

Sher Singh says:

I think it’s more just war hungry men needing a diversion.

India just raised age of female marriage to 21 and is lowering age of sexual consent from 18 to 16.

I’m not going to say much more.

suones says:

The main objective is to increase the number of sluts and bastards, both being very reliable recruits for Moloch. A bastard is psychologically predisposed to hate his father and family, while having the same genetic material as him. One GigaBastard like Barack Hussein “Obama” is worth more than a million foot soldiers.

Sher Singh says:

Ok, so is moloch a Hindu God which Modi worships now?

hcm says:

The demons are legion. The specific ones hindus and jews chose to engage with isn’t terribly important.

Mossadnik says:

While true, it’s always crucial to pay attention to the relative strength of the operating demon. The minor ones are often better off ignored; they sometimes self-exorcise or just die out. With the arch-demons, the powerful ones, the ones that make you go on video and claim that they physically scratched you, the ones that use the possessed’s mouth to take credit for creating nuclear weapons, the ones that currently are — or one day seek to be — in charge of nuclear weapons, well they need the Light to shine on them.

Trump, flawed as he is, was saved by God. Whoever stands with Trump is likely to be on the side of God, and whoever does not is likely to belong to other party.

Mossadnik says:

Generally I avoid linking to fellow Khazars because ethno-nepotism is a little bit disgusting (like incest), but Daniel Greenfield and James Kunstler are usually pretty good. The latter wrote a short post about Ukraine which some may find relevant:

Well, “No Kings” came and went. Inflatable animal costumes did a brisk business for one week. The old Boomers got a social space to act out their nostalgic re-visit to the Age of Aquarius. They resisted. . . something. (Mainly authority of any kind, a retarded adolescent fantasy.) And now it’s back to Rachel Maddow for further instructions. The Republic slogs on, albeit with a shut-down government.

Did you forget about Ukraine? Yes, a war is still going on there and it’s a weeping lesion on Western Civ, possibly leading to fatal sepsis. US neocons set the stage in 2014 with the Maidan color revolution as a wedge to wreck and then loot Russia. Then, for eight years, Ukraine harassed the Donbas with US-supplied missiles and artillery. Russia had enough of that in 2022 and ventured in to stop it. For “Joe Biden,” the war was a nice smokescreen to cover his long-running grift operations in Ukraine. The Euro club stupidly came along for the ride.

It was all a tragic and feckless waste. Mr. Trump wants to stop it, but Western Civ as a whole is in such a state of florid strategic disorder that he’s had to pretend the US supports Ukraine. Mr. Zelensky could not possibly carry on this mischief without US weapons and loads of US taxpayer cash. Still, the Russians advance implacably on-the-ground. They are going to “win” this war eventually — meaning, the US and Europe will lose — and everybody knows it.

It would be nice if France, Germany, and the UK were still stable, thriving, rational nations, but they are not. They have entered an arc of collapse, largely due to their own stupendously bad choices, and their leadership is insane. Macron, Merz, Starmer. . . these are the Three Stooges of our time, and Europe’s collapse has degenerated to morbid, masochistic slapstick as their factories shutter and the Jihadis go about raping their wives and daughters. Do you think that’s not happening?

Mr. Trump surely realizes he has to cut the US loose from this evil clown-show. That they are our NATO allies complicates things, yet, really, the Euro gang is impotent and NATO has become an irrelevant anachronism. They have no effective military mojo. Their economies are imploding. They have surrendered their culture to a savage cult. Their populations are demoralized, emasculated, in thrall to the menopausal viragos in their councils and ministries. They know full-well that Ukraine lies in Russia’s sphere-of-influence — a centuries-long reality — and that it is none of their business. Yet, Macron, Merz, and Starmer keep pushing the fantasy that Russia seeks to invade them, and so they must strike at Russia before that happens . . . all pure delusion.

You can suppose that Mr. Putin wants a negotiated peace rather than continuing the long grind on-the-ground, with all its casualties and expenditures. Such a negotiated peace really amounts to the US ceasing to support Zelensky’s war effort. Of course, such is the insanity of US political life, that many in our government pretend that we have a stake in Ukraine, and must retain some control of it.

Mr. Trump must know this is insane and is against the interests of the USA. He knows that Ukraine is historically in Russia’s sphere of influence — as Venezuela is in ours — and that the best outcome of this mess would be for Ukraine to return to its prior status as a harmless frontier between Russia and western Europe — as it had been since 1945 — looking to its humble business of growing wheat for export. We do not need Ukraine to be anybody’s problem, despite the insane yearnings of the neocons, the weapons manufacturers, and the reckless globalists of the EU, to make it everyone’s problem.

Hence, Mr. Trump’s dilemma: how to dissociate from this losing proposition and come out looking like a winner, saving Europe from becoming a smoldering ashtray, stanching the flow of US taxpayers’ money and US-made weapons into this black hole, and forging friendly relations with a Russia that is decades beyond being our ideological enemy? America and Russia’s interests are geopolitically aligned, though no one in the arena is willing to admit it. Russia has much more to worry about with China right at Siberia’s doorstep than with the USA, just as the USA has much more to worry about with China as it weaponizes A-I, moves into outer space, and casts a covetous eye on the resources of the USA, Australia, Africa, and its next-door-neighbor, Russia.

These are the matters that Presidents Trump and Putin must be touching on in those long, two-and-a-half-hour phone confabs they hold. Meanwhile, Mr. Trump must put on a vaudeville show for his US adversaries about maybe giving tomahawk missiles to Ukraine. . . no, maybe not doing that. . . and the rest of the song and dance to make it appear that we are kinda-sorta still on Ukraine’s side when the truth is we are not so much at all.

And so, the two presidents head for Budapest where — if the intel spooks of Euroland don’t try to bump them off there — they might come to the necessary agreement that the war will end because the US no longer supports it, not even the pretense of supporting it. President Viktor Orban of Hungary, who Mr. Trump respects, will be on hand for moral support. Expect some tough-talking mummery from DJT, just to throw the MSNBC lunatics off-balance. Rogue idiots such as Senators Blumenthal and Schiff will fume that “Trump lost Ukraine,” but the 50-plus percent of Americans who are not-insane will understand what actually happened.

https://archive.is/YYqNC

Should probably spare Kunstler on the Day of the Oven.

Good stuff!

Pax Imperialis says:

Been having the shitty opportunity to listen to and briefly talk with some retired generals. God damn did some of them drink the post-WW2 progressive propaganda. My granddad’s generation (West Point graduate just as the war ended) and his father both had the moral attitude of: “see that town the enemy is shooting at us from, go remove it” and “yeah, we shot all those people”. Gen. LeMay’s attitude on war, from what I can gather from my Granddad’s stories, were fairly common place.

In contrast, the OIF/OEF Generals have, so far, gone on multiple spiels about how our duties as officers is to disobey illegal and immoral orders. One went on about how America is a force of good and that ‘we don’t go about bending other people’s arms’… holy fuck, that’s literally our fucking job. He went on to brag about how we don’t send arty at villages full of women and children even if the enemy has shot and killed our men from that location. As if that moral victory somehow makes up for losses. One of the other (retired) Generals fucking went on and on about how it’s our jobs to not care about politics even though it is well documented that he was (and still is in retirement) going behind Trump’s back during the first administration calling him all sorts of political slurs to reporters… The sheer hypocrisy and lack of shame. The Honorable SecWar Hegseth can’t fire enough of these saboteurs.

Academically, I kinda knew all of this for a long, long time. But personally hearing and seeing the moral failings of GWOT’s Generals up close somehow elicits an almost visceral disgust that I have to struggle to hide in a way that reading about it doesn’t. They’re all so very GAE.

Pax Imperialis says:

My brain was fucking melting when one went on about how we don’t level our enemies and now they’re our best friends because we established civilian governments to work with us… as if we didn’t firebomb and nuke Japan, destroying every major city, and then have Gen MacArthur directly rule as an emperor for 7 years before establishing a client state whose constitution was dictated from Washington. That’s not a fucking friendship, that’s a master-slave relationship.

Fidelis says:

Pax, you must dominate them. Twist their arms. Flatten them. Full scorched earth, until the Stockholm kicks in.

In seriousness, the feminization of every social sphere is preventing anything besides brigadeering and ostracizing from happening. There needs to be reality focused competition reintroduced and favored over palace intrigue, and the first society to solve this eats the rest of mankind.

Wamfries says:

>>>>>
> 1) US neocons set the stage in 2014 with the Maidan color revolution
> 1a) as a wedge to wreck and then loot Russia.
> 2) Then, for eight years, Ukraine harassed the Donbas with US-supplied missiles and artillery.

False.

1) Yeah, US fucked around with Maidan, same as Russia indeed fucked around with installing the former UA President before then. Same as everyone fucks around with everyone else. It’s a Global Game, and you have no stand nor basis to call any particular Kettle of it Blacker than Black.

Everyone fucks around in internal matters, to not admit that, to only denote your preferred side, is to make and publish oneself as a fool.

Internal matters of fuckery are ultimately deigned and handled internally and with fuckery… they are not formally policed externally, and since they do not cross borders with armed men in armed armies, they cannot ever be said to have started Wars. Only War starts War, only the crossing of borders in War is War, nothing else. Since the dawn of Man and his War, no other universal fundamental definition of War has prevailed other than that. The choice to cross borders, not in mere internal fuckery, but in War, is the final and ultimate determinator of War, period, end of story.
If one has strength to choose to cross borders in patently expensive War, then one absolutely already has the far less expensive option to lock one’s own border down and use those forces to purge out all elements of fuckery. War is thus always the fault of the one who crosses borders in War first. There is no other definition.

Ukraine was not fucking around in Russia, Russia was fucking around in the Donbas, including with violent proxies.

1a) No one ever said such a thing, and you cannot find any statement by any Head of State, Head Politician, or Head Military, in any news article as such. No one ever stated any intention whatsoever to invade Russia across its borders, ever.

2) Russia had already mass infiltrated the East-Central Donbas with its violent military proxy forces, antagonists, spooks, political, propaganda, and financing elements. Ukraine at the time was simply responding to this cross-border violation of its sovereignty. These facts are well documented in plenty of contemporary news articles by journalists worldwide operating in the region, including Russian sources.

[*deleted for not conforming to the moderation policy*]

Jim says:

>>>>>
> > 1) US neocons set the stage in 2014 with the Maidan color revolution
> > 1a) as a wedge to wreck and then loot Russia.
> > 2) Then, for eight years, Ukraine harassed the Donbas with US-supplied missiles and artillery.

> False.

> 1) Yeah, US fucked around with Maidan, same as Russia indeed fucked around with installing the former UA President before then. Same as everyone fucks around with everyone else. It’s a Global Game, and you have no stand nor basis to call any particular Kettle of it Blacker than Black.

Russia “fucked around” by Russians issuing posts on social media in favor of their favored candidate — who proceeded to win a fair and free election.

The US “fucked around” by murder, terror, and torture, by instituting a brutal totalitarian terror state, by shelling members of the Russian minority, with most of the shells landing on Donbass being launched from within walking distance of an officially not Nato officially not a military base located in Avdeevka and full of US military personnel.

Fucking around with heavy artillery is a rather different thing to fucking around with social media posts.

> Ukraine was not fucking around in Russia, Russia was fucking around in the Donbas, including with violent proxies.

Russian “proxies” were people who spoke Russian, thought of themselves as Russian. practised the Russian majority religion, who found that the border had moved over their heads, that the regime was shelling them, and the regime not only sought their destruction, but the destruction of Russians on both sides of the border.

> 1a) No one ever said such a thing, and you cannot find any statement by any Head of State, Head Politician, or Head Military, in any news article as such. No one ever stated any intention whatsoever to invade Russia across its borders, ever.

What the globohomo empire does is manufacture a proxy movement, then intervene in favor of that movement with air power, then with ground power, and the ground power stage does involve invasion across the borders — usually with the manufacture of some proxy that invites them

Here is a review of various promises to conquer, subjugate, and destroy Russia, Russians, and Russianness, by unspecified means, but one may reasonably guess that the means would be similar to those used to destroy Alawites and Tutsis. https://www.eurasiareview.com/03112022-washingtons-plan-to-break-up-russia-oped/

These proposals are pretty similar to their proposals to conquer, subjugate, and destroy everyone else, and would presumably be carried out by similar methods. Which methods did indeed avoid literal border crossing as far as possible, but when it was necessary to literally send tanks over the border, they proceeded to send tanks over the border.

In the context of past operations, these proposals to conquer, subjugate, and destroy Russia imply intent to conquer via internal proxies if possible, internal proxies backed by direct US air power if necessary, external proxies if necessary, external proxies backed by direct US air power if necessary, and external proxies backed by direct US and Nato military intervention if necessary and, in this sense, nowhere proposed direct border crossing intervention.

Wamfries says:

You have embarassed yourself by posting the speech of a Pole-Ukr whose country and people Russia conspired a secret desirous pact with Germany to invade thereby starting WWII. It is thus no doubt that his own direct experience caused him to never fail to illuminate the risk of an unrepentant Russia.

“The extraordinary violence that was perpetrated against Poland did affect my perception of the world — ZB”

Further contrary to your cause, you have posted confirmation that the US helped Russia militarily against the October Bolsheviks (nee Russian Revolution) who were destroying Russia… and from whose disastrous Socialist/Communist/Marxist and tyrant-style influence Russia is not yet free, because Putin, the Vainly Covetous Harborer of Tyrancy, has failed to do so.

You have neglected to post all the irredentist expansionist empire seeking statements of Russian leaders.

And you have again completely dodged and redirected away from the inconvenient First Topic and Question at hand…

That you have utterly failed to post any proof whatsoever of your claim that Ukraine invaded Russia first.

Nor does your convenience of rolling back lines-on-maps remove the inconvenient fact you are dodging, because then someone will roll them back even further on you, to a point where you don’t exist.

We refuse your speech proposal, which is a lie you have broken countless times before.
Thus there is no point of further comment in such a dishonest forum.

We again archive this post for all world to see your fraud dodging and censorship.

> You talk all kinds of shit, but you cannot and thus never back it up with news article timelines, because they do not exist, because your version of history simply does not exist.
> Putin and Russia are the Invaders at Fault, the Initiators of Cross-Border Military Warfare.
> The entire world of historian analysts agrees on this point of ground movements.
> Even tribunals of inquiry have certified this.
> You can find no reputable news articles that indicate Ukraine’s Military invaded across Russia’s borders prior to Russia invading Ukraine.
> Yeah “Democracy” and even the “West” are currently one of many epic cycles of bullshit upon the world.
> But even you cannot get away with lying about the bullshit.
> And before long, every place you are supporting like Russia, Islam, and everywhere else… all will enter into their own epic bullshit cycle themselves, as all have before.
> So in the end, your Shit is ultimately no Stankless than Thou.
> All you’re doing is temporarily propping up your favored Stank of Shit more than the other, until the Shit Cycle changes out from under you and you dutifully change sides to Shill your next preferred Shitstain all over again.
> At least military historians have borders they can look at to define who started the Wars in history.
> Borders keep things clean.
> Your lies know no borders, no limits, any level of dirt goes. Putin and his cronies are war-starting irredentists, and are quite frankly paranoid lunatics.
> They either need to stand down for sake of their people, or be deposed by them.
> We are archiving all posts, your censorship is useless, your games no longer work, you have been exposed.

Jim says:

> You have embarassed yourself by posting the speech of a Pole-Ukr whose country and people Russia conspired a secret desirous pact with Germany to invade thereby starting WWII. It is thus no doubt that his own direct experience caused him to never fail to illuminate the risk of an unrepentant Russia.

These thoughts have been echoed by 101 well connected US think tanks that were the recipients of generous ngo funding.

The globohomo empire has been plotting the destruction of Russia, Russians, and the erasure of the Russian religion and national identity ever since Russia decided to throw out the carpetbaggers in 2000 or so.

True, this planned destruction has never explicitly envisaged Nato tanks rolling over Russian borders — because it always envisaged proxy forces preparing the way. But every other nation and group the globohomo empire has plotted to destroy, it never explicitly envisaged Nato tanks rolling over their borders either, but often enough, foreign tanks did roll over the borders when the proxy forces ran into trouble.

Plus I receive, and silently delete, no end of shillposts gloating that Putin is about to be defeated in the Ukraine, and this defeat will result in the destruction of Russia, Russians, and Russianness, plus I see quite a lot of Youtube videos proclaiming the same.

Stan says:

Fryboy is right about there being plenty of evidences of RU’s fucking and *warring* around in UA from RU, decade before RU doubly invaded in 2022, in at least two UA regions beyond just the Donbas, and about who invaded UA starting the *war* first, from RU into UA.

Putin’s forces themselves admitted to Russia’s multiple guilts therein…

“The Crimea referendum was a fake. — Igor Strelkov, Neuromir TV, Jan.22.2015”

[*Bullshit. He said no such thing. Since you start out with a lie, I delete the rest unread.*]

[*He allegedly said this in a broadcast that somehow no one can find.*]

Jim says:

Igor Strelkov makes many grandiose claims for his role in the DPR separatist movement, which might well be true, partially true, convenient political lies, or grandiose self delusion. It is odd that the only witness for the enormous central importance of Igor Strelkov is Igor Strelkov. But which if true, are not evidence of Putin intervention in the Ukraine, because Igor Strelkov was an opponent of Putin long before the Maidan coup. And, from 2014 to 2022, he was issuing a vehement torrent of outraged indignant polemic complaining about the lack of Russian intervention in the DPR and vehemently attacking Putin for lack of intervention.

If Igor Strelkov is your prime witness that Russian intervention in the Donbas started in 2014, you don’t have a witness. And if everything that we have actual evidence that he said from 2014 onwards, his posts on his own blog and such like, are true, (not stuff that an unknown person claims he said in a broadcast that somehow was never actually broadcast) you have even less of a witness.

You are relying on a Putin opponent whose claims (where we have evidence that he made those claims) sound improbably self aggrandizing, And attributing to him a claim that you have no evidence that he made, and which does not sound much like a claim he would make.

Igor Strelkov says lots of anti Putin stuff that those whose who wish to destroy Russia and suppress the Russian language, the Russian Orthodox religion, and the Russian identity love to quote as evidence that there is some real opposition to Putin. And there is real opposition to Putin, most of it bearing a marked resemblance to Igor Strelkov, Who I doubt was such a big wheel as he claims, but his views are very much representative of the real and substantial opposition to Putin. But all that real opposition, all of it, thinks that Putin is a softie who is way too willing to make concessions to the west, and reluctant to deal with real threats to the Russian language, the Russian Orthodox religion, and the Russian identity in very vigorous manner that they would.

alf says:

Hey remember when the US overthrew the Ukranian government, looted the country and Biden publicly bragged about it? Crazy that the Russians think the US might want to do the same to them!

Mossadnik says:

One futuristic way to increase humanity’s IQ and overall quality is to prohibit the lower and shittier classes from producing male offspring, making it an exclusive Ruling Class privilege. Thus the sex ratio will no longer be 1:1. You’ll have many more females than males, and the males will all belong to the elite. Over time this will increase the quality of the human bio-mass, while also basically solving the problem of blue balls.

(This requires restricting/abolishing Democracy.)

Both Trad types and homosexuals are likely to object, for their own respective reasons. But I like this idea and support it.

Mossadnik says:

My most Ashkenazi idea ever. And it’s a good idea, too.

Jim says:

High inequality societies maxed out at three females reproducing for every male reproducing. Presumably anything more severe than that runs into revolution. Three to two, or two to one, is however fairly normal. If we cut the lower third of males out, should be fine.

Mossadnik says:

Three to two, or two to one, is however fairly normal. If we cut the lower third of males out, should be fine.

Yes. The most humane and efficient way to achieve this is to prohibit the lower classes from producing male offspring, but allowing them to have females. This solves:

1. Sexlessness
2. Dysgenics
3. Lower-class violent crime

And it does so without compromising the birthrate, if we resurrect from the dead some aspects of Mosaic Law (which modern Jews don’t actually follow).

Fidelis says:

The dysgenic trend is a huge indictment of man. You have to go out of your way to cannibalize the healthy in order to get to where we are now. This proposed scheme is a bit silly, and I suspect said in jest, but the idea space for, lets call it, returns on human capex is deep and wide.

For the good of all man, present and future, liberalism must be destroyed, and replaced with actual property rights. Preferably property rights backed by a soverign, but at the very least property rights in persons and one’s own children.

Mossadnik says:

This proposed scheme is a bit silly, and I suspect said in jest

Not silly and not in jest.

But it obviously needs much elaboration.

Selective Breeding!

Fidelis says:

There’s zero incentive alignment and it still allows for downbreeding. Dividing it by class implied a de facto slave caste, and then these mandates become infringement on the rights of the owning class.

Better is rigorous self selection among the patriarch class, and basic measures to make the low useful, whether or not they want to be useful.

For a fun one, we can take eggs from the highest genetic health women, and run IVF with them on cheap third world wombs, and raise the children in the very early years with cheap third world nannies. This doesnt need total femlib extermination, but only “regulatory” arbitrage.

Mossadnik says:

Lower class males are about to become entirely redundant. I am literally the most wigger poster here, probably by a wide margin. And I can assure you that it’s possible to incentivize the Natural Slaves to only breed females, not males. You can literally just do things, and it’s one of them. A King who decides to pursue this will have a more prosperous and peaceful kingdom than one who allows Natural Slaves to keep producing males.

Fidelis says:

Lower class males are about to become entirely redundant.

Doubt it, they’re meat robots. They run off spare biomass, have generally low maintenance costs, and can be improved each generation through selective breeding like everyone else. You can only train a horse or donkey so well, and their lack of hands limits utility, but a human(oid) has a lot more potential. Low class humans are a burden in a social welfare democrat system, and a resource in a neofeudal property rights system.

Mossadnik says:

Well, the technological trend I foresee is for low class males to become increasingly redundant due to automation. Not saying we’re there yet, but we are headed there. Whereas females will always have value, because they have a pussy which we enjoy fucking. Eggs are more precious than sperm.

Fidelis says:

Well, the technological trend I foresee is for low class males to become increasingly redundant due to automation.

They’re very low cost meat robots. They can get an insane number of motion cycles, are easily and quickly repurposed for different tasks, utilize the same supply chains for upkeep as the higher classes, and they can reproduce themselves.

We are so very far away from a robot run nursing home, for example, but shaniqua raised without race hate fit the task quite well in the old south. Lots of tasks in even a very automated factory can be performed by a human better and cheaper than a machine even with all the “social welfare” costs. Take those out, and the cold, cruel physical energy calculation still favors the meat robots for certain tasks.

Mossadnik says:

You will still have meat robots for a while; they won’t all disappear forever in a single generation, lol. But restricting the lower quality (perhaps that’s more accurate than lower class, but ideally there shouldn’t be much of a difference) elements from having males will be eugenic. And men will have much more pussy to swim in.

Mossadnik says:

By the way, I address the same problem that Yarvin addressed here:

https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/2009/11/dire-problem-and-virtual-option/

But my solution is infinitely more Realistic than his.

Fidelis says:

men will have much more pussy to swim in

This is solved with IVF and cheap nannies. This is why I say the idea space is vast.

Here’s an investment idea: your IVF corp buys eggs from beautiful, smart, but very femlib women, so they can pursue their email degree in the Moloch city. They fertilize and implant them in cheap wombs, and raise them collectively to be ideal wives. The IVF corp then attracts the very best talent by signing contracts enforcing a certain amount of corporate participation in exchange for one of their women. You’ll quickly get an arms race in benefits packages, as the outputs from the top fraction of humans are multiplied by more effective techne.

Once you free yourself from the libshit mind prison, the configuration space is immense.

Mossadnik says:

Your idea does not contradict mine (and I’m not opposed to it), but my stone kills more birds simultaneously.

Fidelis says:

problem that Yarvin addressed here

Yarvin is attacking two libshit memes by “agreeing and amplifying”. One, that a life lived in maximum support of hedonism is grotesque. Two, that the lower cannot effectively manage themselves, and leaving them to live in their own shit so that you don’t have to admit decolonization was a disaster is incredibly cruel.

Mossadnik says:

The basis of your objection is “Lower quality males will always potentially have value.” Not what I’m predicting at all. It’s the opposite of the trend I observe.

But women will always have pussy.

Mossadnik says:

Also, again, they won’t all disappear immediately. But gradually they will, alongside increasing automation.

Fidelis says:

my stone kills more birds simultaneously.

It feels zero sum to me. We don’t have a problem of too little space or too little resources, we have escaped the Malthusian trap. We do have a problem of allowing the lower to live disgusing and degenerate lives, and having the higher pay for it.

I suggest corporate serfdom. Remove all welfare, and allow corporations to maximally control certain classes of employees if certain conditions are met. Allow a person to choose to sign their freedom away, in exchange for prosperity. We have an underutilized good in the form of low class labor, allow the higher class to utilize the good, and even improve it. The american negro is to this day smarter than the native african, despite quite a few generations of maximal dysgenics. This is no accident.

Mossadnik says:

The costs of not following my solution outweigh whatever costs following it will exact. Again, even implementing your ideas, this will remain true. Perhaps you only think in terms of the coming decades, but I look centuries ahead & to the conquest of the galaxy. No need to keep breeding low class males.

Mossadnik says:

Pseudo-Chrysostom is right about Natural Slaves, and I write this as a minimum wage earning wigger.

Mossadnik says:

So you prohibit the Lower Elements from producing male offspring. Boom. Everything solved. (I’m exaggerating, but in the long-term I am obviously correct.)

But women will always have a pussy.

Mossadnik says:

If you want Cosmic Christianity, you adjust Christianity to the Cosmos. Aka, “The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath.” Cosmic Conquest filters for very high competence, and filters against low competence. You don’t need niggers (literal or metaphorical) in space. Need eugenics in place of dysgenics, and this is a humane and simple variety of eugenics, which also need not contradict some other solutions – embrace the power of “and.” And, did I mention, you get plenty of available pussy.

It’s a good idea.

Fidelis says:

It’s a jewish idea, you guys always killed the men and were extremely jealous about the whole deal. The aryans that conquered and dispersed you leveraged defeated men as labor and legion fodder, its more scalable.

Roman elite died out because they made marriage communist with retarded divorce lawfare. Not because of downbreeding or population pressure. Similar situation here.

Mossadnik says:

Jim, what do you think? Am I onto something Fundamental or have I self-lampshaded? No doubt the more trad (tard) and more homosexual viewers will object, but the former are low IQ & irrelevant and the latter are seething misogynists who hate the very existence of women.

Think I’m onto something.

Jim says:

> Jim, what do you think? Am I onto something Fundamental or have I self-lampshaded?

IQ is obviously falling. We may not attain useful gentech in time, in which case no alternative to some form of the old solution.

But if upper crust women generally get married at puberty to upper crust men and stay married, humble, obedient, and faithful, or else, I think we will likely have talibanic levels of fertility, in which case upper class men breeding with lower class women is of limited utility.

Mossadnik says:

It’s a jewish idea

Excellent. Jews achieve results.

Mossadnik says:

Also, I get that “selection against the lower class” triggers you emotionally for some reason, but “U JOOISH” is not a valid answer (your arguments have been obliterated), and I’m the poorest kike you know.

Mossadnik says:

Also, I reproduced and you didn’t, and Israel has healthy TFR while your country doesn’t. The point is not to brag, but to emphasize that when Jews explain reproduction to you, eugenics at that, perhaps you should listen instead of “(G)oy vey I’m being persecuted by the ruling class HELP.”

Fidelis says:

I am advising selection on the lower class, I am just not advising elimination of all lower class men. You are acting like that is the only solution, and as if it’s not a waste of perfectly good meat robots. Besides the twist on keeping the women, this is late 19th early 20th proggism; they were flipping out about the catholic retards they themselves imported, and decided they had to kill all of them starting with the most obviously demented first. This is a weird and unnecessary leftist meme, that exists only because leftists believe too much in equality. We are not equal, we do not have equal social positions, so we do not worry about the underclass. They get pushed into ghettos or into manual labor farms and someone finds a productive use for them. They don’t even breed much, that requires social tech they cannot fully comprehend. It’s the biggest nonissue.

You are likely mad about retarded arabs in your country. Put them to work and you will be less mad about them. Killing the underclass men does not fix the problem of an underclass existing, because now you have made a half-underclass with men now thinking about promoting one of their bastard children. It’s stupid and counterproductive even for what you’re advocating.

You want more pussy, you make it. You want less underclass, you move to a richer neighborhood. The poor will always be with us, and when we are in the middle of the genetic mod intelligence feedback loop, the poor quality humanoids of 130IQ will seem as disgusting and dull as the niggers littering the first world of today. Inequality is not solvable, you have to deal with it. The best way to deal with it is to allow property in persons, and they’ll get traded around by the smarter until someone finds a good use for them, even if that good use is just “go be stupid and disgusting somewhere else”.

Mossadnik says:

killing killing killing

Unresponsive. I said nothing about killing anyone.

Mossadnik says:

If you agree to the principle that low quality people should reproduce less than high quality people (perhaps you don’t, but then you’re retarded), take it a step further and ask why they should bring low quality males at all into a world that doesn’t need them and in which they are apt to cause problems. (Low quality females still have a pussy though.)

Differential breeding works!

Fidelis says:

The current state is a massive anomaly. Almost always the middle and higher outbreeds the low, because it requires a stable marriage, which is social tech, and the middle and higher are more apt to follow social tech. If you think we have a massive underclass problem because they are just like rats breeding uncontrolled, you have absorbed prog memes. We have a massive underclass problem because destruction of marriage and poisonous state religion, not because human nature or biology.

world that doesn’t need them and in which they are apt to cause problems.

This reminds me of the UBI faggots. When we have actually automated all human labor above a certain mark, then lets talk about retiring the underclass. They are not apt to cause problems naturally, anymoreso than cattle are apt to cause problems. They’re stupid and disorganized, hence underclass. Lets not burn up good capital because of some hysteria about cleanliness.

Mossadnik says:

Lets not burn up good capital

Argument from false consensus. Lower class males were good capital in the past, and were needed as soldiers. They are increasingly becoming useless in both regards.

The trend is towards automation and elite warfare, like it or not. Again, think in terms of centuries rather than just the coming decades. You want Cosmic Infinniger. No thanks, we have enough niggers and wiggers already. Need less, not more.

Quality usually trumps quantity, and so contrary to your predictions, Israel sodomized Iran, not the other way around. It’s your emotional attachment to wiggerdom that prevents you seeing it. But I’m a greater wigger than you are, and I confess to the increasing uselessness of my class. Emotions don’t matter.

Fidelis says:

false consensus

lol lmao

I am suggesting the open market find “opportunities” to make use of the underclass. This is the exact opposite of what you accuse me of. The idea of a top down enforced program where some bureaucrat, because its always a bureacrat the soverign is busy, demarks the lower class, and the society as a whole enforces that the lower aborts male fetuses and/or gets IVF for your daughters only program is literally a state enforced consensus. Its a silly idea. It has a grain of truth, in that it mirrors the pattern of early city-state evolution and breeding, but we are past that stage. We are in industrial institution based society now, and your system *will* be massively outcompeted by the genecorps that just run embryo selection paid for by the slaveholders wanting to make better meat robots. The fastest and best way to make more pussies is to just organize a company to do it, and have someone pay. The fastest and best way to deal with the underclass indolence, is to remove all welfare, and let the corps willing to make use of them take them somewhere to do it. The manorial system worked amazingly well, and the neofeudal corporate system, Fordism, killed in the cradle by hysterical progs jealously trying to organize society — consensus! — to their norms, has more promise still.

Quit being a levantine nigger, embrace modernity.

Mossadnik says:

I am suggesting the open market find “opportunities” to make use of the underclass.

And I suggest gradually phasing out the underclass via prevention of underclass male offspring, which moreover provides other social boons. The mechanism can take many forms, and I argue for the principle itself here, not the exact method of implementation. That would be premature indeed.

The open market can do just fine without an underclass. And in the long-term it will, whether or not my idea is adopted. Not all genes should propagate, and genes that were propagation-worthy yesterday may not be propagation-worthy tomorrow. The open market will be ecstatic.

Daddy Scarebucks says:

And I suggest gradually phasing out the underclass via prevention of underclass male offspring

From a purely utilitarian point of view–and I do not approve of utilitarian ethics, but that seems to be the meme of the night–how is this not inferior in every sense to simply promoting elite fertility, and suppressing underclass fertility by polite neglect of their property rights and elimination of gibs?

The Jimian solution, i.e. the OG Christian solution, requires nothing but enforcement of elite male property rights in women, and casual lack of enforcement of helot male property rights in women, and results in an overall posterity that has good genes on both the paternal and maternal side. Whereas your proposal is going to result in many generations of mutts.

Undoubtedly, these polygamy-powered mutts will be better than the dysgenic filth outcompeting everything else in the west today. But, again, you are discussing solutions that are not just coup-complete, but Jihad-complete. So given that the sky’s the limit, why should we choose such a strange, inefficient and untested system, compared to the time-tested system of patriarchal monogamy, along with modern improvements like screening, gene-editing and IVF?

The lynchpin of this seems to be attaining a lowered M:F sex ratio, because… something about choice, I guess? Abundance mentality? But that is players and bitches game, we don’t need that with a 1:1 ratio in a “mate for life” patriarchal system which is perfectly competent at ensuring that the majority of successful men find a mate.

Ironically, the radical feminists would probably agree with you the most. They advocated something like a 20:80 M:F ratio, presumably using abortion as the enforcement mechanism. It’s straight out of Andrea Dworkin’s playbook.

Mossadnik says:

Good points Jim and Scarebucks.

The lynchpin of this seems to be attaining a lowered M:F sex ratio, because
 something about choice, I guess? Abundance mentality?

A reactionary society can do away with choice, while also pursuing sexual abundance. This proposal need not replace any old-school Jimian program, but serve as a potential supplement.

Ironically, the radical feminists would probably agree with you the most. They advocated something like a 20:80 M:F ratio

In their system, women are supposed to have all the political power. In any reactionary system, they will have none, which is why even being massively outnumbered by women should not be a problem. But 1:3 is a good ratio in my view.

Mossadnik says:

Whereas your proposal is going to result in many generations of mutts.

Perhaps not all that many; that depends on where you set the cutoff point; which itself depends on what sex ratio you consider to be ideal or “tolerable.” Granted, we are still some decades away from this, and in the meanwhile should implement the more classic, time-tested solutions.

But again, if you would rather that some types not breed at all, then you can allow for other (higher) types to breed but with certain conditions, one being “just the chicks please.”

Jim says:

> to breed but with certain conditions, one being “just the chicks please.”

If we were going at it like someone breeding domestic animals, obviously the efficient solution is only the very highest quality males reproduce, but nearly all females reproduce. But we are breeding ourselves. This is very different.

We need a large investment by men in raising sons. So we really cannot aim for a large sex ratio. But we certainly can aim for sex ratio of more than one suitable female for every suitable male. In the ancestral environment of evolutionary adaptation it has generally been around 1.5 to 2 females for every male, with something very bad happening to the excess males.

Trouble is you cannot have something very bad happen to a very large proportion of males, or they are likely to get a bit difficult about it.

The ability to control sex ratio at birth (presumably earlier in our evolutionary history we controlled it post birth) implies a certain level of tech. If we can hold on to that level of tech, which is far from certain, we can probably accomplish gentech that opens other avenues for improving the race.

Earlier in our evolutionary history the tech was that children born outside marriage were discarded, but, if female in an environment of positive bride price, someone would salvage the female discards to be future wives.

Monogamy with no female choice or firmly restrained female choice tends to result in an environment of negative bride price (positive dowry). Polygamy with no female choice or firmly restrained female choice results in positive bride price, plus people trading sisters for wives (cousin marriage or second cousin marriage), plus people adopting female children to be traded for wives once they reach fertile age. Or you arrange for your brother in law to adopt a female child who will become your wife when she reaches puberty.

So, assume polygamy, plus marriage only enforced on the upper class and wives of the upper class. Then we get your solution, with excess males quietly disappearing post birth or pre birth, while they are still young enough that their disappearance can be conveniently quiet.

This solution may become necessary as IQ levels fall below what can sustain current tech levels. On the other hand, the gentech solution is much more humane, and will give us the new race prophesied by Darwin a lot quicker. And, of course, the elite monogamy with elite females marrying very young solution is just nicer and more humane, and somehow cleaner, than any of the others.

Pseudo-Chrysostom says:

‘Cheap labour’ is expensive, because low capitalization potential and troublesome externalities, which are often the same problem.

The low price is a reflection of low expectations for return. You don’t actually get wealth from slave labour. Slave in the sense of slave races, not in the sense of ‘punishing working conditions’ (although there is a lesser element of that too).

The old liberal elite dreamed of a mysterymeat underclass that could never have the potential to threaten them – they solipsistically project their fear of treachery in seeing all neighbors as potential rivals because that is exactly how they conducted themselves with their neighbors to begin with.

But the reason it could never be capable of threatening them is also the same reason why it was no good. No value in them, no value of them.

Bix Nudelmann says:

The “couragous conversation” that’s been needed the most in America is: Just what in the hell was slavery really about and why?

My position is that it was an alliance-with-far-against-near and high-low-versus-the-middle phenomenon. The “high” importing an entirely new “low” to squeeze the “middle” (poor white labor) against. Sounds familiar.

As far as I can tell, this AI/robotics fantasy going around is the same thing all over again, “but getting it right this time” in that AI & robots go into “sleep mode” when not needed, and can’t fuck, vote, steal, complain or reproduce.

Alf says:

The story concerning America’s slave origins is that the primary problem was not wages but lack of manpower for labor-intensive undertakings. Plantation owners needed more labor than was available, so they simply imported slaves.

Slavery being a rather natural state of human nature, not hard to imagine over time the slave owners getting used to its many perks: I’d be pretty happy if I had a bunch of servants doing the cleaning, laundry and other menial tasks. So over time the slave owners started seeing it as their moral right to own slaves, up to the point where they actually re-opened the slave trade in 1859. Which makes me conclude that the north was actually correct in declaring war, though not for equality reasons but for hbd reasons.

Pseudo-Chrysostom says:

Abraham Lincoln won the presidency by running on a platform of sending africans back to africa.

The ‘Free Soil’ movement was understood by most people at the time as the No Niggers movement.

Pseudo-Chrysostom says:

Of course, it was all hijacked by the whigs in harvard and jesuits in georgetown.

The Cominator says:

My opinion is that John Wilkes Booth and his whole circle were Jesuit agents and this was not all that uncommon knowledge at the time of the assassination. Thus the Jesuits killed Lincoln, though whatever the reason it wasn’t likely because he was going to forcibly send all the former slaves to Africa because there is no evidence of that. The free soilers were definitely understood though at the very least the “no niggers in the territories” movement.

Here is what the large language model says on Jesuits and Booth

There is no evidence that John Wilkes Booth had contact with a Jesuit priest in connection with the assassination plot. The idea is a prominent historical conspiracy theory, but it is unfounded (Cominator: Read on, too many connections for it to be unfounded and Booth not technically having converted himself is not evidence against since he may have been ordered to remain on paper a Protestant)
While Booth himself was an Episcopalian, several people associated with the broader conspiracy had connections to the Catholic Church and Jesuit institutions, which fueled later anti-Catholic conspiracy theories.
Key facts regarding the Catholic connections of the conspirators:
Mary Surratt, a boarding house owner where the conspirators met, was a devout Catholic. A Catholic priest, Father Jacob Walter, served as her spiritual advisor, visited her in prison, and accompanied her to the gallows. He was not a Jesuit.
John Surratt Jr., Mary’s son and a Confederate spy involved in the initial kidnapping plot, was Catholic and had attended Georgetown College, a Jesuit school. He fled after the assassination and eventually joined the Papal Zouaves (the Pope’s army) in the Papal States, an escape that a “lapsed priest” later used to suggest Jesuit involvement.
David Herold, who escaped with Booth, also briefly attended a Catholic college.
Dr. Samuel Mudd, who set Booth’s broken leg during the escape, was a Catholic and an alumnus of Georgetown College.
Father Bernardin Wiget, a Jesuit priest and president of Gonzaga College High School (another Jesuit institution), was a character witness for Mary Surratt during her trial and heard her final confession.
The “Jesuit plot” theories were largely promoted by anti-Catholic figures after the assassination, such as the defrocked priest Charles Chiniquy, but historians widely dismiss these claims as having no factual basis. Booth’s own religious upbringing was Episcopal, and his motivations appear to be rooted in Confederate sympathies, not religious directives.

Daddy Scarebucks says:

Imagine doing this in America, and ending up with thirty million negro women who are ten times angrier and more destructive than even today because they cannot find a man.

Even if we picture this as a Jihad-complete problem, with all the racial demographics cleaned up in whatever way you imagine (deportation, segregation, etc.), this still sounds like a recipe for immediate labor shortages and long-term civil war. What happens in the second generation, when there aren’t any non-elite men anymore, and we have to start telling the smart, energetic and well-educated sons of elites that America needs more burger-flippers and ditch-diggers, and that sadly this is going to place them in that bottom third not allowed to have their own sons, but hey, them’s the breaks?

I think this ultimately devolves into a hard caste system, largely based on the mother’s lineage, whereas patriarchal meritocracy would do the job just as well without as many of the negative effects.

Mossadnik says:

ending up with thirty million negro women who are ten times angrier and more destructive than even today because they cannot find a man.

But they will be able to find a man, because obviously such a system should allow for polygamy and concubine, like the old systems.

this still sounds like a recipe for immediate labor shortages

Nothing needs to be done too drastically. We can wait for automation to make the lower classes entirely superfluous – the day is not very far.

we have to start telling the smart, energetic and well-educated sons of elites that America needs more burger-flippers and ditch-diggers

Of course not. I haven’t worked out how the class/caste system should operate. Perhaps based on raw genetic quality, and with many nuances obviously. But the principle is workable so long as men aren’t equal – and men are never equal.

Daddy Scarebucks says:

But [the negro women] will be able to find a man, because obviously such a system should allow for polygamy and concubine, like the old systems.

I don’t think you quite understood the joke there. I’ll have to chalk it up to cultural differences.

White man/black woman couples are… not a real thing, outside the fictional world of TV and movies. Sure, I suppose that the negro race exists because some of the white plantation owners couldn’t resist humping their African slaves*, and “love finds a way” and all that, but it was a different time, with sparser population, fewer options and vastly hornier/higher-testosterone men.

(* Actually, I am far from certain of this. It might have been the other way around, i.e. due to mudsharking marital infidelity. I’ll bet someone here has studied it enough to know the real score.)

And have you seen what the average DMV lady looks like? Who wants that even as a concubine, never mind a second or third or tenth wife? Nine out of ten, I wouldn’t want to bang with your dick, and don’t know any dudes who would. For every one Beyonce there are one hundred Shaniquas.

Nothing needs to be done too drastically. We can wait for automation to make the lower classes entirely superfluous – the day is not very far.

I think you’ve been taken in by the tankie luxury communism meme. Automation is a force multiplier; it does not eliminate labor, it makes that labor more efficient. In a functioning economy, automation is supposed to be part of an innovation cycle, where industrial automation is accompanied by industrial expansion, so that e.g. instead of 1 factory being run by 500 employees, you have 5 factories (each with the same capacity as the original) being run by 100 employees each. This is how a small but productive nation eventually becomes an unstoppable force.

It looks zero-sum today–looks like automation simply eliminates jobs–because the innovation and expansion is not happening concurrently, not at the proper rate anyway, because for the past fifty years it has been systematically strangled.

Can you just automate everything with machines and keep expanding anyway? I dunno, maybe. But then someone’s got to maintain the machines, supervise the machines, clean up after them, etc. Even if it’s one guy supervising 10 auto-part factories with a bunch of remote drones from a remote console, if humanity wants to translate that into conquering the stars, then that needs to become 1 million guys supervising 10 million spaceship-part factories on Earth and in space.

You should be thinking “multiplication”, not “subtraction”. We will obviously have to do something else about the very lowest of the low, the helot and criminal classes who cannot perform the simplest tasks or even reliably show up to work, but we do not want their gene pool at all, in the men or women.

Of course not. I haven’t worked out how the class/caste system should operate. Perhaps based on raw genetic quality, and with many nuances obviously.

Completely fair that some blanks need to be filled in, and that you haven’t planned for every detail. I submit to you that this particular detail is absolutely crucial, extremely difficult to solve satisfactorily, and almost certain to derail the whole plan (and society in general) if not solved satisfactorily.

20th-century progressives were interested in very similar social experiments and also loved throwing caution to the wind. Don’t worry, I’m not accusing you of being one of them. But we should learn from their mistakes; when someone asks “how exactly will you handle this enormous gaping hole in your plan?” it is wise to figure out an answer before moving ahead. The progressives loved to say “we’ll figure it out along the way” and now here we are with peer-reviewed science and gay race communism.

Mossadnik says:

These are fair points.

We will obviously have to do something else about the very lowest of the low, the helot and criminal classes who cannot perform the simplest tasks or even reliably show up to work, but we do not want their gene pool at all, in the men or women.

The question here is if the bottom 30% need to be as reproductively successful as the other 70%. And again, I don’t suggest this as a permanent solution for ever and ever, hence the common objection to any form of eugenics, “There will always be a bottom X%” need not apply.

More generally: If the principle be admitted that it would be better — or no great loss — to have fewer of certain types in the population (which principle is admitted here), then preventing certain types from having male offspring — while allowing them female offspring — should not be that controversial.

when someone asks “how exactly will you handle this enormous gaping hole in your plan?” it is wise to figure out an answer before moving ahead.

Oh, absolutely. And it could well be that some gaping whole will be found here and sink the entire idea. This is all very preliminary. But I believe that the idea itself should not be dismissed out of hand. Let’s think it through before tossing it into the dustbin of horrible ideas, because it may have the potential to actually improve civilization for the long term.

Daddy Scarebucks says:

More generally: If the principle be admitted that it would be better — or no great loss — to have fewer of certain types in the population (which principle is admitted here), then preventing certain types from having male offspring — while allowing them female offspring — should not be that controversial.

Yes, I admit to admitting the principle, we are certainly on the same page with that. What I find unpersuasive is the intimation that the principle logically concludes with your proposal. The principle could lead to any number of different proposals, one of them being plain old patriarchal monogamy, which is quite easy to implement and enforce and we have tons of experience with it.

Your system sounds difficult to implement and enforce, both logistically and politically; it has a similar vibe to China’s One-Child policy, obviously not identical, but people are going to react with very similar indignation, and many of the lower-class couples are just going to ignore it and have the kids anyway unless we use atrocious violence to stop them, in which case I wonder why we even bother with the whole program rather than just deporting them all. If we’re fine with using violence to remove their unwanted children, then we should be equally fine with using violence to remove the extant adults, which is much quicker and cleaner.

Your way requires an intrusive government bureaucracy to implement, and bureaucracy always degrades virtue. It is liable to lead to something like the Mexican Casta. Jim’s way is the removal of oppressive bureaucracy and a return to negotiated agreements between men of virtue. It generally leads to a homogeneous elite class–a virtuous aristocracy–with a small but sufficient working class.

I’m not saying that your idea can’t work, but I am failing to see how it is the better option.

Mossadnik says:

Well, I’ll have to think about it some more. Thanks for the feedback.

Mossadnik says:

> Your system sounds difficult to implement and enforce, both logistically and politically; it has a similar vibe to China’s One-Child policy, obviously not identical, but people are going to react with very similar indignation, and many of the lower-class couples are just going to ignore it and have the kids anyway unless we use atrocious violence to stop them, in which case I wonder why we even bother with the whole program rather than just deporting them all.

For the record, I have precisely zero qualms about sterilizing the underclass. In the long-term it’s an unalloyed good. If your elite converts to Christian Taliban tomorrow and has a TFR of 6-7, and technology keeps advancing, within a few generations, or by the end of this century, there will be no need to keep the underclass around at all. I’m fully with Saint P-C on the issue of Natural Slaves. You’ll still need some meat robots for a while, perhaps, but they will hardly constitute a class, and their numbers will be very limited indeed.

Allowing them to breed females is the more pro-natalist (and pro pussy abundance) alternative to sterilizing them completely. Obviously a spacefaring civilization whose elite practices Christian Taliban will not actually need them to keep breeding. Quite the opposite.

This is not to discount your overall objections here, but just to clarify where I stand.

Daddy Scarebucks says:

This is not to discount your overall objections here, but just to clarify where I stand.

There was never any doubt.

But to call it pro-natalist–well, sometimes what seems like a fair compromise for everyone only ends up making all the parties unhappy. The segregationists and exterminationists will see generations of mutts, and be frustrated at the lack of movement toward the desired ethnostate, while the moralists and pro-lifers will see abortions becoming not only legal but mandatory, and consider it an affront to Christianity and a moral abomination.

(I am not a pro-lifer, I am a pro-property-er; but if you doubt this outcome, simply observe how the anti-abortionists already complain bitterly about this industry that caters almost exclusively to the negro race and assorted helots.)

It’s only really justifiable on utilitarian grounds, where a crumbling empire, finding that it is no longer capable of sustaining monogamy even after a coup and a good-faith effort to restore the social technology, decides to give up on monogamy and search for a semi-functional solution based on polygamy, which is (by a considerable margin) the lower form of civilization but is at least an improvement on the longhouse matriarchs. In other words, a last resort.

And being a last resort, it may very well come to that, eventually, if the right fails to take power, or takes power but lacks the will or the skill to do what is necessary to restore monogamous propertized marriage. It has happened in the past; nevertheless, I will keep rooting for the better outcome.

Alf says:

I’d have a couple of objections.

The first being biblical: “In the cities that which the Lord thy God give thee, leave nothing alive that breatheth. That they teach you not to do after all their abominations.” Which I’d argue refers to spiritual abominations, but also biological. Personal observation is that children receive plenty of traits from their mother’s father. Perhaps not the Y chromosome, but there’s plenty of other low class chromosomes being passed on. So there’s the argument for miscegenation.

Then the argument for parental investment. One of the strongest indicators for having a big happy family is having been part of a big happy family. Monogamic families always outperform polygamic families in functionality. Perhaps not in bigness though, so there are some shades of grey to this argument, the founding tribes of Israel being a great example. Yes, because of typical polygamic drama they sold their half-brother into slavery, but they sure had lots of kids.

And there’s the question of whether we even need that kind of thing nowadays. Sure, tfr might’ve been about 5-6 in the good ole days, but that includes child death and all sorts of nastiness we’ve come pretty close to eliminating. So real tfr was closer to, what, 3? These days, a tfr of 6 with one upper class woman with all children surviving into adulthood is pretty attainable. So are drastic social experiments really necessary?

All of which isn’t to say I’m not just old-fashioned and unable to recognize alternate modes of sexual relations beyond the one I prefer. But that’s my thoughts on this subject.

Mossadnik says:

I also don’t necessarily suggest to run this program permanently – at some point humans will, perhaps, become civilizationally advanced enough to try other things.

I see here no violation of divine law, in principle. Obviously the details need to be worked out.

Jimmy says:

This kind of thing won’t work. Our Lord said “the poor will always be with you.” the stoics knew it. The Church knew it. Trying to improve man without sacrifice, without moral labor, just doesn’t do it. Because that’s not how man was designed. You want a bunch of strong and good men? Then buckle down and raise them. Twenty years, no short cuts.

Only wiggers come from breeding pits.

It’s a solution to a problem that seems workable only because the problem is improperly described. We don’t need to get rid of the poor and stupid, we need to remake our anti-human system so that they can live sanctified lives. Stupid men aren’t bad men, necessarily. They just need societal props to be good, to function as intended. And I’m not talking about ubi. They need a strong religion, moral leaders, meaningful work, and property rights in their women. The strong-minded man can function well without the societal props. The weak-minded can’t.

The poor (low-iq) suffer the most from being deprived of throne and altar. And they become a source of suffering for everybody else.

Jimmy says:

Said another way, my point is:

The white men built cathedrals in the past, but he can’t build them today. It’s not for lack of a capable architect. It’s for lack of an army of yeomen laborers and contributors. Lack of the army is not due to iq deficiency, it’s due to loss of social technology.

Your solution is to turn man into a race of architects. The real solution is to bring back functional social technology.

Jim says:

> The white men built cathedrals in the past, but he can’t build them today.

Nuts.

White men are building Cathedrals again. If the state religion is Christian, as in Russia, white men build Cathedrals. If the state religion is demonic, we get brutalist boxes, like Freedom Tower.

It simple. If the state religion is Christian, the state creates beauty. If demonic, the state bulldozes beauty and mass produces ugliness.

Culture is downstream of power.

Jimmy says:

Of course. We’re in agreement. Russia isn’t building again because they are breeding out low iq whites, it’s because they are reintroducing throne and altar. Anybody want to hazard a guess as to the average iq of the men who physically built the Cathedral of the Resurrection?

Putin kneeling before the sanctuary on tv is what is turning the ship. For that you need a Putin, a sanctuary, a TV, and you need the men who own the TV to be in submission (at some level) to both Putin and the one who dwells in the sanctuary.

Of course political power is a necessary ingredient in the medicine.

Anon says:

What about “elite overproduction”. You want 10s of thousand young elites fighting for power, that seem one of the major problem today.

Fidelis says:

>elite overproduction

This is a leftist brainbug. We have a declining elite in actuality, as in those of latent elite talent. The “overproduction” is in stupid degrees for whatever –PhD in Monkey AIDS studies — which doesn’t make you elite except in the eyes of a delusional leftist bugocrat, that sees little official bits of paper as if descended from heaven and annointing the one in possession of them.

We have a declining society, all of our institutions are indeed shrinking, so everyone sharpens their elbows in order to get into a more prestigious position. Once in the prestigious position, these freaks all band together, and no one fires them, and you end up with 100 generals to 1 soldier in every organization. This is not because we have 100 generals, but because we watered down the position of general until it was meaningless.

Daddy Scarebucks says:

What we have is not overproduction of elites, but overproduction of priests.

Fidelis says:

>priest overproduction

I agree, but this does not cover the entire picture. In lots of organizations you have administrative bloat out of sheer dysfunction unrelated to very holy priests demanding you hire ever more very holy priests.

It’s a result of shrinking pie dynamics combined with the worship of The Process. When an organization has lost its founder, and there was no definite succession for a new Benevolent Dictator, you get automatic rule by committee. The committee, because ruling by The Process and Consensus, follows the Iron Law of bureaucracy within an organization that was not ever intended to be a bureaucracy, and propagates itself. Now they decide they are providing more value than the workers, and hire more of themselves, and pay each other more. Now no one wants to be a worker, because you just get stepped on by the bugocrats justifying their existence, and paid shit, and never promoted. So you get 100 managers per actual working employee, even without explicit priestly hiring practices, which are indeed present and highly destructive, just not the entire picture.

This is solved by removing corporate welfare, and allowing the men that founded the organization more discretion in succession. Currently, it’s illegal and unholy to even consider a form of succession that is not handing the entire thing over to The Process, that needs to change, or else we get an epidemic of zombie corporations that burn up captial every time their founder retires.

Fidelis says:

The distinction I want to point to is that not all bureacrats are priests.

A priest is going to force the state religion into everything, filter every decision through “does this match the consensus of the greater priesthood”. Hence the famous “Burgers?” meme, where the priest thinks his job is not to sell burgers, but disgusting dysfunctional sex.

A bugocrat is very very similar, but instead of “is this decision good for maximizing anal sex” thinks, “is this decision good for The Administration”, which is subtle but distinct. It is priest adjacent, lets say, and will be a problem to solve even with a healthy state religion.

Daddy Scarebucks says:

A bugocrat is very very similar, but instead of “is this decision good for maximizing anal sex” thinks, “is this decision good for The Administration”, which is subtle but distinct.

They are both the priests of two separate, heretical religions, or demonic cults. One serves Lucifer, the other serves Legion, referring back to my previous trichotomy.

Both are heresies of Progressivism, which is itself a heresy of Puritanism, which is a heresy of Protestantism, and so on, I’m sure that’s not new to most folks here.

Your distinction is fine, if you want to make it. I have made the same distinction in the past. But they are all priests, and we are overproducing all of them through different tracks of the Academy, with most of the former coming from the social studies track, and most of the latter coming from the management and finance tracks.

Jim says:

Reflect on children’s animation going all gay self insert all the time. Representation!

Jim says:

> When an organization has lost its founder, and there was no definite succession for a new Benevolent Dictator, you get automatic rule by committee. The committee, because ruling by The Process and Consensus, follows the Iron Law of bureaucracy within an organization that was not ever intended to be a bureaucracy, and propagates itself. Now they decide they are providing more value than the workers, and hire more of themselves, and pay each other more. Now no one wants to be a worker, because you just get stepped on by the bugocrats justifying their existence, and paid shit, and never promoted. So you get 100 managers per actual working employee, even without explicit priestly hiring practices, which are indeed present and highly destructive, just not the entire picture.

Yes, you just cannot get stuff done without a Dictator for life with complete power.

Anonymous Fake says:

You’re only seeing half of the equation though, like most conservatives, and it’s a problem because it’s the half that already gets the most light and exposure. The dark side isn’t that standards have been reduced for elite positions. It’s that standards have been highly increased for rank and file grunts. [*deleted yet again for all the usual reasons.*]

Jim says:

> standards have been highly increased for rank and file grunts.

No they have not. What you are complaining about is the professoriat telling students and parents that priestly education is immensely important and they should spend fifteen years at university running up five hundred thousand dollars in student debt, when it is for the most part a waste of time, as Musk has regularly complained and regularly told young people.

What actually matters is a good internship and a good mentor.

For this, you want to punish people like myself, and punish people like Musk, destroy any business that provides good mentors and good internships, and reward the professoriat by making their Ponzi promises come true at the expense of the productive.

Fidelis says:

Musk has regularly complained and regularly told young people [to avoid overeducation]

Musk says one thing and does another when it comes to this. He doesn’t hire all overeducated phds, but he also is not doing anything at all to seek out and hire abnormally talented recent high school grads. You can blame the state, but we both know he gets an exceptionally long leash. Looks to me like he is doing some priesting himself on this one.

Jim says:

> he also is not doing anything at all to seek out and hire abnormally talented recent high school grads

What gives you that idea?

Elon Musk is recruiting for Tesla: I ‘don’t care if you even graduated high school’

Musk:

“Join AI at Tesla! It reports directly to me & we meet/email/text almost every day.” Musk in further replies to his tweets also clarified that he doesn’t care if the person has even graduated high school or not

Elon Musk has a job for you and you don’t need a degree for it.

Fidelis says:

There is no poster child. Thiel’s thing has lots of examples. There are zero wunderkind at SpaceX or Tesla that I can find anywhere. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence and so on and so forth, but you would expect at least one. They made it a point to show off how uncredentialed some of the DOGE team were, but no examples from any of Musk’s personal companies.

Musk says a lot of things. I am sure he personally does not give a shit what your “education” was but only what you can do, yet he is doing exactly nothing to capitalize on poaching bright highschoolers before they get sucked into big schools. It is perceived, perhaps rightly, that it is a massive risk to not go through the university system. You need to show that your are serious about what you say here, and Musk does not demonstrate seriousness. In fact, let me pull up a bullshit hiring page for any old Tesla position

https://www.tesla.com/careers/search/job/engineering-technician-instrumentation-calibration-250311

The only postings where some certification isnt listed as a requirement are the software positions. Yet I see lots of kids on youtube do more impressive work than what I would guess goes on here.

If there’s a poster child anywhere, I’ll eat my words, but my guess is Musk just says this but then runs off to put out yet another fire somewhere without bothering to set up his own talent pipeline and bridge the (perceived) risk gap some kid would have at skipping the university system.

Jim says:

I just did an internet search for rocket job postings: First hit is Spacex and says:

Formal electronics training (AC/DC circuits, formulae, and components) or equivalent work experience

So it looks like Musk is talking the talk and walking the walk.

We know the Doge boys were uncredentialed because they received intense hostile exposure. I am pretty sure if the rocket builders came under similar hostile attention, we would get similar results. But Harvard wants to prove that the rockets were created by Harvard and gifted to Musk by the Rothschilds, so any namefag who reports that an uncredentialed rocket engineer is doing something important is going to get his teeth smashed down his throat with a hammer and his children are going to be murdered by six black polsci PhD students with baseball bats and room temperature IQs.

Fidelis says:

What is “formal training” if not certifications? They wouldn’t substitute “work experience” if they were not signalling that you need a priestly education.

Where are the poster children? Where is the talent pipeline?

I am sure Musk doesn’t care where his employees got their skills, and that’s my point. He doesn’t care, he made a statement to shock the press, then went back to putting out whatever fires his business(es) threw at him. The nature of the world we live in says if you do not reach out, they’re not going to come.

Jim says:

> The nature of the world we live in says if you do not reach out, they’re not going to come.

My experience of the world is that people just show up. This must be even more true if you are SpaceX

Jim says:

> What is “formal training” if not certifications?

Formal training is not required. It asks for “formal training or equivalent experience”

Daddy Scarebucks says:

What is “formal training” if not certifications?

To be fair, I read this:

Formal electronics training (AC/DC circuits, formulae, and components)

as saying that it’s fine to have an 8-month electrician or technician diploma, which would include all of those specific things mentioned above, and not require a 4-year undergraduate degree (or more). Because if an engineering degree was required, it would simply say “engineering degree”, there’d be no reason to say otherwise.

This does fall short of Thiel’s direct recruiting out of high school, but not by all that much, and Thiel does not do as much of that direct recruiting as he advertises, either.

I have no answer for the lack of a poster boy, and I’ll be the first to agree with you that Musk says a lot of shit he doesn’t really mean or hasn’t thought through, and so Musk’s HR department might be cock-blocking the non-priests anyway and saying that postings such as these ACK-shully require a college degree, but the posting itself says otherwise.

Fidelis says:

It’s directionally better than saying they only accept harvard grads, but still spiritually cucked. Musk is very much representative of Thermidor, in that he hates troons and the excessive bureaucracy, but believes in liberal principles, up to and including replacement migration.

When we win, he keeps his businesses, but gets only 2 wives, and he is told explicitly that he will get the Jack Ma treatment if he doesn’t shut up and build rockets.

Daddy Scarebucks says:

Musk is very much representative of Thermidor, in that he hates troons and the excessive bureaucracy, but believes in liberal principles, up to and including replacement migration.

You’ll get no argument from me; I have said on numerous occasions that Musk is a spiritual lib and a fundamentally unserious person prone to public bluster, like Trump, but without Trump’s private charm. He is useful, and his apparent autism causes him to blurt out edgy ideas on occasion, but he is neither warrior nor priest.

That being said, a public job posting has to list some requirements, and we all well know it can’t have anything like “high IQ” as a requirement. What would you have written instead?

Fidelis says:

What would you have written instead?

I would invest money in organizing competitions and outreach for highschoolers, and have a structure created to apprentice them. I wouldn’t bother with online job postings like this, they’re fundamentally unserious. Like women posting height requirements on dating apps, its all bullshit.

The more smart people you can hire and align directionally with your company, even modestly, the more your returns. Industry always has returns to scale, and so even if they leave and do something else after a while, they will have social connections to your businesses, and have their head filled with your ideas, and will produce technologies and businesses that you can consume. Industrial society is inherently positive sum, reinvesting profits into human capital, is a leverage point.

Daddy Scarebucks says:

I would invest money in organizing competitions and outreach for highschoolers, and have a structure created to apprentice them. I wouldn’t bother with online job postings like this, they’re fundamentally unserious. Like women posting height requirements on dating apps, its all bullshit.

Having spent abundant time on both ends of the process, and in both variants of the process (push and pull), I don’t think this is a realistic view.

Direct recruiting is a lot like direct marketing in terms of economies of scale. There are a bajillion students spread across a million different high schools and college freshmen/sophomore programs. But unlike direct marketing, you can’t blast it out to anyone and everyone, because the consequences of mistakes made in direct hiring can be rather high, meaning they cannot just hire a bunch of minimum-wage slobs to cold-call or “cold-visit”. They would need to send real experts out to do the recruiting, and not even the largest companies have enough reliable hiring managers and recruiters to scout all the schools, all the time.

The cost of a job posting is next to nothing, and the cost of a modestly-sized staff of hiring managers and recruiters who just vet the applications and search resume databases and interview the ones with promising resumes is a fraction of the cost of direct hiring–literally multiple orders of magnitude smaller. Thousands vs. millions, or millions vs. billions depending on the scale. And even today, with hostile HR frequently acting as gatekeepers, it still works out okay at least some of the time.

Direct recruiting can work well as a supplement to the more traditional channels, particularly if there are magnet schools (using the term generically here, not talking about the Ivy League magnets) with specialized programs in rocketry or whatever. Like for example, the winners of the American Rocketry Challenge, which by the looks of it, still tend to be pretty white and male despite their best efforts to blackwash. I’d be surprised if SpaceX doesn’t try to recruit from those schools; but I can’t blame them for not visiting every public school in Bumfuck, North Dakota, because that’s logistically impossible.

It also works if you have some clever way to set up a private pipeline, like when Google used to identify certain search patterns and fire off job ads to random users who triggered the detection, but those situations tend to be rare, and don’t last long once they become public knowledge, because they are easily exploited. Thiel, being in the sector of finance, venture capital and so on, might in fact have his own version of such a thing, like poaching from the VC pipeline or somehow identifying individual traders showing unusual insight. However, I doubt Musk has anything like that; the barrier to entry for amateurs in rocket engineering is simply too high to systematically identify “undeveloped talent”.

I can, in theory, imagine a system modeled after the professional sports pipeline, which I think is the closest instrument to your stated ideal that has been successfully implemented in reality at the scale you envision. But there are a few key attributes of the pro sports pipeline that would be a significant challenge, if not totally impossible for a single company to implement on its own:

First, professional athletes earn salaries of millions to tens of millions, so being an athletic recruiter can be very lucrative, and the financial incentive alone is enough to get whole networks of recruiters to spring forth simultaneously. The teams themselves don’t need to be scouting everywhere all the time, private recruiters will do it for them in order to nab that sweet commission.

Second, professional athletes actually do still go through the college pipeline, but there is a mutual understanding between the colleges, recruiters and students that it is all a formality. In other words, multiple tiers and segments of society all need to collude cooperate in order to keep the machine lubricated.

And finally, athletic life is public in a way that academic life is not. Recruiters don’t need to organize their own games and “job fairs” and “talent expos” because the teams and athletic organizations themselves will do that anyway out of love for the game; the recruiters only need to go watch in order to identify potential superstars. And it’s also fun to do, and pretty easy to identify on sight who is a natural athlete, whereas it is much more difficult and semi-illegal to test for smarts.

At this point, I anticipate some reply along the lines of “wtf I never said anything about athletes”, so I am going to preemptively respond to that and say I know, I am using it as the poster boy for the best possible outcome, in order to demonstrate how many things have to go right, at so many different levels of the pipeline and of society in general, in order for it to function the way it does; and even that pipeline is in decline today for all the reasons you’d expect.

If rocket engineers were commanding salaries of $10 million, and permitted to philander and pimp-slap women, and constantly in the public eye, and given access to the best dietitians and personal trainers so that they are always looking their best, then you can bet that recruiting pipelines would spring up very quickly to either route around the credentializing gatekeepers or neuter their ability to gatekeep, but that’s not the world we live in. Engineering isn’t a high-status profession, and Elon Musk cannot solve that problem on his own, so it would be ruinously expensive and inefficient for him to simply drop all traditional hiring channels and employee a vast network of talent scouts. The credential-based pipeline would have to get far worse than it already is in order for that to start looking like a logical tradeoff.

What Elon Musk can reasonably do is say “no degree required, just apply if you have some way to prove you’re good at electronics or propulsion”, which seems to be what he’s doing. I think you are asking for the impossible under the current status quo.

deklin says:

Companies like Musk’s don’t really go hunting smart frosh kids that much, and most dont know how to work, let alone socially. They do network and poach some mid-to-elite talent. They have job ads for endless other apps, which some places actually sort in your favor into weird alert-requestor-now bins by AI. And they have secret open doors onsite. You…

1) show up onsite
2) show and tell them what you can do
3) tell them how low they can pay you while you learn more stuff they need
4) offer a three month trial term on paper
5) tell them why you want to work there

Trying these oldschool “union walk-on” style approaches still works wonders, even online if you find the right exec / board member / team lead.
Half my jobs, from first to now, I never filled an app until after I was hired, and they never wanted to look at it beyond shoving the pile at the HR Nazi and telling them I’m starting tomorrow.

A2 says:

I’d like to suggest that society reconsiders eugenic hanging, a tried and true method with a long history of success.

FrankNorman says:

Gregor Mendel is frowning in your general direction, Pharoah. One thing your plan overlooks is that many of the important genes for intelligence – or lack thereof – are located on the X chromosome. So while the traits are expressed more strongly in males, they are passed on to the next generation by the females.
Which would make your idea only a slightly slower road to Idiocracy than the one the West is already on.

If you want to prevent human civilization from collapsing due to there being too many stupid people who cannot contribute meaningfully, you cannot really give their females a “pussy pass” like you are suggesting.

Jim says:

Because X chromosome traits are expressed most strongly and clearly in males, if we want to select for good qualities for males on the X chromosome, where a lot of important IQ genes appear to be located, we have to select for good quality sons of daughters of good quality males. So we want to marry the daughters of the best men to the best men. Which is an argument for monogamous marriage.

A common upward mobility path in Regency England is that a man of the upper class would marry his daughter to a talented and rising member of the lower class, and give the young man a promotion as part of the deal.

Humungus says:

“…would marry his daughter to a talented and rising member of the lower class,…”

Humungus concurs, these females must posses certain attributes though. They must be well proportioned, with nicely developed limbs, symmetrical facial features, and robust health.

We want our progeny strong and fierce lest we slip back into our old ways. Perhaps a contest of sorts to prove fitness.

Aristoxidis says:

[*deleted for not conforming to the moderation policy*]

Sanran says:

Jim, you told us to vote for and worship Trump.

Trump is about to invade Venezuela.

Which will then be added to the many other crimes he has already committed.

What have you to say for yourself?

Jim says:

Did you not previously tell me Trump was about to invade Iran?

And, right now, Trump is invading Gaza. Except that instead of Americans dying for Israel, he has Arabs dying for the Trump Gaza Real Estate Redevelopment Project.

The deal he arranged is that Trump runs Gaza, but his will is enforced by Arab soldiers who do not like Palestinians any more than the Israelis do.

Never do a deal with Trump. He will have your shirt.

Sanran says:

Jim, while commendable you answered me, I do not respect your answer, because it is full of shit, off topic, and nonresponsive, because I asked you “What do you have to say for yourself?”, which means your answer must be about and reflect on you.

> Did you not previously tell me Trump was about to invade Iran?

If someone told you that, well, Trump did then go on to infact invade Iran… bombed the MOABs on them, and had the Jews as his wingmen.

Or are you going to tell us invading the very Islam that you defend, in order to MOAB the nuke factories… is somehow now good in your mind?

> Except that instead of Americans dying for Israel

Baloney. Your White Christian American families/babies are dying because Trump is sending $200+ Billions of US treasures to foreign Israel, where no such families are dying, instead of using it for those families in America.

> his will is enforced by Arab soldiers

Baloney.. The second Islamic Gaza gets free of non-Islamic oversight, which it and those Islamic soldiers (Arabs were wiped out by Muhammad’s Islam long ago) will fake themselves until it makes it, it will then launch against Israel again, because the Pally’s/Yemen’s/Somal’s/Houthi’s/Hezb’s/etc are the proxy bitches for shiny UAE/Saud/Qatar/Turk/Egyp/IB/Shia.

Israel’s only real use to non-Islam is as a very willing regional proxy against Islam. If it weren’t for that, and for its greedy partnership in other schemes… it would have been left to the wolves of Islam long ago.

Though since you support Putin’s Irredentism, you would have to support Jewish Irredentism too, and thus wipe out Islam too because it never had any original claim to the Jewish lands.

> Never do a deal with Trump. He will have your shirt.

You were effectively telling to do deals with Trump.

Seems your self-proclaimed predictive-analytical capabilities that you claim is you and this blog… are became fail.

And now you are trying to pivot and spin away from your designate Trump.

There is no way for you to hide from this because your worship of Trump is all over this blog for decade.

> Never do a deal with Trump. He will have your shirt.

He has been violating your shirt.

ie:
What do you think about Trump supporting Ukraine?
Trump is literally killing your precious Russians, letting the Ukrainians destroy your Rus-Orth Church.

Jim says:

> > Did you not previously tell me Trump was about to invade Iran?

> If someone told you that, well, Trump did then go on to infact invade Iran
 bombed the MOABs on them, and had the Jews as his wingmen.

OK, sucks to be Iranian. But not an invasion, and no Americans were harmed in this operation. I don’t care about what happens in the middle east, providing it does not involve American blood and treasure being spilt on the bloodstained sands.

Israel is a very bad ally, but Israel is an ally and Iran is an enemy. They deserve each other. I don’t care.

> Trump is sending $200+ Billions of US treasures to foreign Israel,

Bullshit. Trump 2.0 has spent 3.8 billion on Israel so far, which insignificant. Plus, if the Trump Gaza Real Estate Redevelopment Project succeeds, Trump’s family will likely profit two hundred billion or so, not to mention a whole lot of Gazans will have a prosperous future instead of violent death, and a whole lot of that profit will eventually return to America one way or another way creating jobs and economic development for everyone.

> Though since you support Putin’s Irredentism, you would have to support Jewish Irredentism too, and thus wipe out Islam too because it never had any original claim to the Jewish lands.

The Muslims stole the holy land from us, not from the Jews, except in the sense that the Christians of the Holy Land were likely disproportionately of Jewish ancestry. In the parable of the wicked vinedressers, God tells us that the Holy Land now belongs to those who follow Christ.

We lost it twice to the Muslims, for the same reasons each time. Third time, I think we will keep it, or Jewish Christians will keep it.

> are you going to tell us invading the very Islam that you defend, in order to MOAB the nuke factories

We are not invading, which is good, and our ancient enemy Dar al-Islam not having more nukes than it already does is also good.

And I do not defend Islam. It has been our irreconcilable enemy for fourteen centuries, it is just that right now both Islam and ourselves are facing a far worse enemy, which needs to be addressed first, before we can again pick up our ancient quarrel with each other.

> What do you think about Trump supporting Ukraine?

Trump 2.0 has not allocated any fresh money to Ukraine, but has not cancelled Biden allocations. He has cancelled some weapons deliveries promised by Biden. In this sense, Trump is not supporting the Ukraine.

Mossadnik says:

By the way Sanran, I’m as fervently pro-Trump as I am (in part) because I seek to be on the good side of American Goyim’s Empire. My real thoughts are far more skeptical than I let on in this platform. Does that make me a dishonest zio-propagandist? Well, no one is perfect, but consider that Trump will eventually depart, one way or another, whereas the alliance I seek to foster with the American Right is intended to be long-term.

Mossadnik says:

I mean, I’m all for Americans abolishing the Empire. But as long as they don’t, I’d rather be on the good side of it. But you should definitely scrape off the Empire of the Bases and the Empire of the Consulate and stop funding foreign wars and all that. It’s just that I recognize that currently Trump does maintain the Empire, so I shill for the Beast from the Sea just as the Beast from the Earth is supposed to do. But I’m not actually high off my own supply.

Mossadnik says:

(Obviously an actual shill would never admit to any of these things. Look, I just want Americans to not needlessly hate Israelis. We sure do have our own flaws, but we need not be your enemies. Scale back or abolish the Empire, but don’t prioritize Iran over the Israeli-Saudi coalition. C’mon. And we’re not building the Temple any time soon, by the way.)

Mossadnik says:

(If Trump does manage to make those Peace Deals, this will be great for the entire region and also for America. The Iran+Assad+Hezbollah shills were rooting for a paper tiger. It all entirely collapsed. So I’ll continue to be a frothing Trumptard, though I never really fell for it. A kike’s gotta kike, after all. But those Peace Deals, if they materialize, will indeed be a very positive development, and will make it easier for America to disengage from the region.)

Mossadnik says:

(To paraphrase Moldbug about India, and to keep true to the “Mossadnik” handle: Stop trying to make Iran happen. Iran is not going to happen. The butter is spread on the other side.)

Mossadnik says:

(The Shia-Shills can console themselves with Yemen — lolz — since the Houthis have not been properly dealt with. This is pathetic, weak sauce. The leftist IDF is not as leftist as those familiar with the US army might imagine: while there are similarities between the respective states of affairs between America and Israel, the conditions are not entirely identical and parallel. Ultimately the leftist IDF obeyed Netanyahu. And Netanyahu obeyed Trump, for better or for worse. But the point is, the leftist IDF is not full retard leftist, unlike other factions of the permanent government. So again: the Iran shills overestimated the Shia axis, and underestimated Israel+Sunnis. But yeah, the Houthis are still around lolololol. Pathetic shit.)

Mossadnik says:

(The leftist IDF was full retard and disloyal on October 7, to be clear. What I’m getting at is that Israeli Thermidor following October 7 is perhaps more successful than American Thermidor. Duh – Israel is a country with healthy TFR, a religious majority that takes its religion somewhat seriously, and political polarization here is not nearly as extreme as in America. One just can’t entirely extrapolate from one country to the other. I never actually expected us to collapse, despite some initial oy-veying. We’ll be okay for the foreseeable future, and objectively speaking — let’s pretend I’m not a ZOG shill for a moment — Israel is on the rise, and Iran is in decline. Hopefully Sanran now gets it.)

Mossadnik says:

(And if anything I’m writing here is in any way WOW JUST WOW SHOCKING NEWS to Sanran, then perhaps Sanran should consider that his “other” geo-political analysis is also full of crap. I mean, if Sanran’s understanding of other conflicts around the world mirrors his understanding of Middle-Eastern affairs, then maybe he should switch up the blogs he’s reading and get his information from different sources or something. No, I don’t have any specific recommendations. I just happen to actually live in Israel. Or he can convince himself that, any day now, any moment, the awesome might of the Houthis will totally DEVASTATE the Zionist Regime hahahahahahaha. Yeah Sanran, it’s you who actually fell for it. Sorry, retard. Enjoy your internet ideology.)

Mossadnik says:

(By the way Sanran, if another Islamic disaster does strike Israel, it will likely come from Judea and Samaria. There is the leftist IDF’s real blindspot. I suspect that if it does happen, it will be soon, because after our next elections in 2026, we’ll probably have a government even more determined to strike fear into the poor poor Pallies. We’ll see. But I’m telling you, as someone who actually posted from the bomb shelter when Iran was striking us, that the Shia axis is done, finished, it’s over, it’s not happening. You can keep watching those brain-dead analysts on YouTube who tell you otherwise; doesn’t matter, they’ve been wrong about everything, none of their predictions came true. Your geographical understanding, Sanran, absolutely SUCKS!)

Mossadnik says:

(Since Sanran is jerking off and climaxing to my every post, I’ll elaborate still further. I do regard it as reasonable that Israel and Hamas/Hezbollah/Iran will have another go. What I’m trying to get into Sanran’s thick skull is that, unless the libtards succeed in couping Bibi, the results of any such conflicts will further shift the balance of power in favor of Israel+Sunnis and have Iran+proxies weakened. This is the opposite view than the one taken by the geo-political analysts and bloggers that Sanran is subscribing to; he is subscribing to them because of confirmation bias, not because they are ever correct about anything. And currently it does not look like the coup against Bibi is going anywhere. Bibi is probably here to stay for another round, and whoever replaces him may well be even more right-wing. Look at the new head of Shin Bet – totally /ourguy/ from the Israeli Right’s perspective. The regime is slowly undergoing transformation; the Kaplan “Elite” is gradually — ! — losing its hold over the institutions, replaced by Religious Zionists, Likudniks, etc. Demography is working against the Left. Those Israelis emigration away? Mostly libtards. Babies born? Mostly to conservative families. Aliyah? Generally of patriots. The Left is falling. Bibi remains, and for all its flaws, the IDF did not disobey the Prime Minister. So if we have another round with the aforementioned enemies, it’s highly likely that whatever remains of their power, which is not a lot, will be further diminished. Sanran, you were wrong in thinking that Iran is preferable to and more viable than Israel+Sunnis. Iran has not yet fallen, its proxies are not totally dead, but today in 2025 they are much, much weakened compared to 2023. Yahya Sinwar don’ goof’d. The Shia axis is in shambles. And your much-beloved endlessly-referenced pundits, Sanran, though they tell you what you want to hear based on your revealed worldview, have not been telling you the truth. Wake the fuck up, dipshit. Subscribe to different channels or something.)

Mossadnik says:

(Do you really think that I’m so retarded, Sanran, as to actually believe that all wars in the Middle-East have permanently ended and now peace will reign forever? Lol, as someone who intends to keep living in Israel, I cannot afford any such naive delusions. I’m not actually a frothing Trumptard, Sanran, I only pretend to be one because I’m a cynical manipulator. Of course there will be more bloodshed on this, that, or any of several fronts. The point is that Iran actually has lost many of its assets, fully or to a significant extent, and in a new conflict, will likely lose still more of its assets. Israel has lost absolutely nothing. The balance of power has greatly shifted away and slipped from Iran’s hands. Your pundits predicted the exact opposite, because they are emotionally and/or financially invested in the anti-Israel thing, also they might just be really dumb. And you are dumb for falling for their bullshit. Stop trying to warn us that we will have more wars. Duh! The point is that our enemies have grown weaker, and with Israel shifting to Thermidor mode, also cancelling some of its Pride Parades, a future war will likely further diminish the power of Iran and/or its proxies, and empower the Israeli-Saudi axis. As long as Trump is President and Netanyahu Prime Minister, that’s what you should expect. Iran is not going to take over the ME anytime soon, likely it never will. Meanwhile, Peace Deals that will empower Israel and make it easier for America to disengage from the region are on the way. We still have many problems going, but consider that if Israelis keep telling you that Iran is being weakened and weakened, it’s not just empty jingoism and bluster; unlike your retarded pundits, we actually live here.)

Mossadnik says:

(And by the way, since you Sanran mentioned Qatar, consider that its Al-Jazeera propaganda outlet, that has long been poisoning the minds of Arabs with anti-Zionist bullshit, is now under new, more moderate management. This is a sign of Trump pressuring Qatar to cut Hamas off. Will it actually work out in the long term? We’ll see. Everyone knows that Islamic terrorism at scale is always state-sponsored, and with the Shia axis in shambles, and now even Qatar, following the changing dynamics in the region, likely pivoting strongly towards America and signaling a softening of its anti-Israel stance, you should expect the terrorist groups in the region, including Qatar’s baby Hamas, to only grow weaker and weaker. That’s how you ultimately win the War on Terror – at the state-sponsor level. Do you understand yet, faggot?)

Neurotoxin says:

Yadda yadda, finishing with
“What have you to say for yourself?”
seems like a shill technique to prompt a response to an otherwise ignorable crock of pap.

Then:
“I asked you “What do you have to say for yourself?”, which means your answer must be about…”

Oh, “must” huh? You’re a cheeky little monkey.

And, from another poster,
“Why do you remain silent about [yadda yadda]?”

Again, “I demand that you talk about my pet issues!”

Hemsworth says:

Jim,

Why do you remain silent about:

1) The “Arabic Speaking Muslims” [*deleted for not conforming to the moderation policy*]

Jim says:

The claim that Mohammedans are the big threat to the west is no different from the claim that the Joos are the big threat to the west.

Mohammedans are not the threat. Those who brought in Mohammedans are the threat.

Mossadnik says:

A universe without human slavery.

Not because slavery as such has been abolished, but because slaves (a natural kind) have been abolished.

Is that not a brighter vision than perpetuating a spiritually degrading existence forever?

Thus I say, a day is coming when the slaves will be abolished. They will be no more.

dharmicreality says:

No, so long as Man exists, there will always be a prole class and there will always be a bottom of the prole class, because the natural tendency of humans is to bifurcate according to their own kind: priests, warriors, merchants and proles. And even if you somehow managed to abolish proles altogether, a new prole class will naturally and spontaneously form out of the lowest performing rung of the extant warrior/priest/merchant class. And then out of the bottom of the bottom of the prole class a slave class will be segregated as naturally. This tendency to gravitate to the different rungs of society is nature’s way of segregating the different kinds and maintain balance.

Varnashrama is descriptive of nature and natural law and not prescriptive.

You want to breed out bad genes out of existence, by saying that slave castes shouldn’t exist but I doubt it can be done in the manner you suggest. You may be able to erase genetic tendency but you cannot erase ancestral history.

Mossadnik says:

Thanks for the reply.

> out of the bottom of the bottom of the prole class a slave class will be segregated as naturally.

Why is that an inevitability? Not asking facetiously.

Dharmicreality says:

Segregation, hierarchy, differentiation and order has always existed from our origins. I truly don’t know why but only that it exists at every level in nature from subatomic structures to galaxies.

As to why a “Slave class” is inevitable it’s just an observation that the bottom of the barrel always exists. Even if a future “Slave class” is still a vast improvement over the present day Slave class, I have no doubt that the differentiation will continue to exist, and relatively speaking will still be considered a Slave class by our future elite regardless of our current definition.

Trying to force all humanity of even a single race to reach elite evolutionary level is literally impossible. Seems much like a progressive program to me, except that the progressive simply pretends that these differences don’t exist.

Mossadnik says:

>>> out of the bottom of the bottom of the prole class a slave class will be segregated as naturally.

>> Why is that an inevitability?

> I have no doubt that the differentiation will continue to exist, and relatively speaking will still be considered a Slave class by our future elite regardless of our current definition.

Not sure about this. It may well be that proles will be necessary for the foreseeable future; not sure about the necessity of a slave class, though. In a recent previous thread P-C (whose thinking greatly inspires mine) told us:

> When a higher form of life gets paid they accumulate capital and enrich the community around them, can engage in business and value-producing activities, et cetera. Whereas, when you pay a natural slave it’s essentially wasted money, because it never goes anywhere good. They lack stewardship, don’t take care of their own things or things around them, are profligate and remain poor, are to petty vandalism or burglary of public goods when there are no apparent consequences for doing so, rendering many social technologies impossible, et cetera.

At least with that description in mind, I believe that over the span of a few generations it should be possible to breed the slave out of the prole entirely or almost entirely. For ye have the Dysfunctional Mutant always with you; but not necessarily as a segregated and reproducing class/caste.

Daddy Scarebucks says:

The problem that keeps repeating itself with these debates is that you and P-C are advancing a different concept of the “slave caste”.

To me, and to DR, there is simply always going to be a bottom 10%, and a bottom 1%, because people are not equal, and people will never be equal. There is always going to be a distribution, probably a literal bell curve since that’s what we see in nature within (not between) the races. There will always be a ruling class, because of conservation of power/sovereignty, and there is always going to be an elite middle of some size (ideally quite large, currently shrinking rapidly) favored by the ruling class, and then the people outside that elite middle are going to be considered undesirables, or at least, not really worth high investment.

This isn’t exactly hard to prove to yourself; just observe any reasonably large and randomly-selected male social group in practice, for example the schoolyard behavior of a school classroom. There will always be popular kids, unpopular kids and average kids. Even if you throw multiple races into the mix, you still get this kind of sorting, just with multiplicative segregation mechanics obscuring it. Only a matriarch, a female teacher or principal, will try to force everyone to equal standing in the name of “inclusion”.

But that is not exactly the argument that P-C makes, which may or may not be the argument you make. Which argument is that the phrase “slave caste” or “slave people” refers to an absolute, frozen in time. It refers to an extant category of people who observably lack any drive, ambition, creativity or intelligence above low cunning, who have so far resisted attempts at uplifting, such as the native peoples of Africa, who reverted to the bush almost immediately after decolonization.

And the argument is that no society needs people like that, and any society with a large enough number of people above this slave caste can relatively easily set about removing the slave caste, whether through something like eugenics or far cruder means, and end up with a much better quality of people at the bottom of the social strata. This is, undoubtedly, also true.

We keep going round and round this merry-go-round, arguing different things that are not mutually exclusive and don’t contradict each other, but sound like they are in competition because they are trying to make utilitarian arguments for what is fundamentally a moral question, which is why utilitarianism sucks. The question, rather set of questions, is:

1. Are the people we currently consider natural slaves entitled to life and dignity, or are they mere obstacles on the road to progress, i.e. genetic perfection, to be eliminated at a whim?

2. If progress is held to be the more important virtue, can we accept the gradual progress made by eugenic fertility alone–patriarchy and marriage 1.0–or are more drastic measures justified to try to accelerate it?

3. If more drastic measures are justified, how do we know how many iterations of it to go through, i.e. how will we know when to stop? You cannot simply say “when the slave caste is gone” because definitions will change over time, that is simply human nature and ignoring it means a purity spiral of purging the bottom 10% generation after generation. Which maybe you and/or P-C are also okay with, but again, it is a question of morality, not utility, because the hypothetical P-Cs and Mossadniks in the glorious future, where today’s slave caste has been eliminated and all but forgotten, are going to have different views on what constitutes a slave caste according to their times.

When someone asks “do the ends justify the means?”, don’t be autistic about it. Obviously he is aware that you, personally, have already made that judgment in favor of the ends. It is an admonishment to consider that the ends might not be as easy to achieve as you expect, or that the proposed means might be far less effective and far more destructive than what you imagine, with many unanticipated and unintended consequences.

No one here is saying “we can’t deport the underclass”, or at least I am not saying that. Of course we can, and many societies have done. But simply deporting the underclass is not really what you are talking about either. So let us stop beating around the bush. Enough of this “imagine the glorious future of genetic perfection”, speak plainly and say what you want to do, and the opposing sides (if there even are any) can debate and philosophize about the morality accordingly.

Dharmicreality says:

I think you have summarised my own thoughts on this well.

Just wanted to add that, the problem of “slave class/caste” becomes a non-issue when the ruling elite is virtuous and the State religion is sane and Gnon-aligned because there is no race to the bottom, hierarchy is respected and the “Slave class” remains low status, decently segregated, fairly invisible in polite society and mostly trouble-free.

Mossadnik says:

> the argument is that no society needs people like that, and any society with a large enough number of people above this slave caste can relatively easily set about removing the slave caste, whether through something like eugenics or far cruder means, and end up with a much better quality of people at the bottom of the social strata. This is, undoubtedly, also true.

First of all, it’s a good thing that we — as in you and I — agree on this point. It’s not obvious that everyone else agrees, which is why I decided to open this issue up for discussion.

> 1. Are the people we currently consider natural slaves entitled to life and dignity, or are they mere obstacles on the road to progress, i.e. genetic perfection, to be eliminated at a whim?

Life? Yes. Dignity? That depends. Yesterday, for instance, I argued that natural slaves should not have male offspring, but can have female offspring. Is that an affront to their dignity? Definitely. But then the presence of natural slaves in civilized society is, at least in my view, an affront to the civilized society. Point is, one is not either perfectly valuable or totally worthless. Also, I do not seek genetic perfection; I do seek the elimination or minimization of certain flaws — in this case, the underclass “essence” — which can be eliminated/minimized if we so choose.

> 2. If progress is held to be the more important virtue, can we accept the gradual progress made by eugenic fertility alone–patriarchy and marriage 1.0–or are more drastic measures justified to try to accelerate it?

It is far, far, far from obvious to me that American society will ever adopt the Jimian Solution, or if it does, that it will implement it effectively. Theoretically, practicing eugenic breeding for long enough can obviate the need for more drastic measures. In practice, hard to imagine it happening – just look around you, modern society is as far from patriarchy and marriage 1.0 as it has ever been, with no sign of change (for the better) in sight. It only gets worse. So the “more drastic measures,” such as they are, should at least be considered.

> 3. If more drastic measures are justified, how do we know how many iterations of it to go through, i.e. how will we know when to stop?

“How will I know when the Messiah has arrived?” asked Chaim of his rabbi. “Fret not,” answered the rabbi, “for when he does, you’ll certainly hear about it.” (Jewish joke which Christians might not like.) More to the point, we are not anywhere near the stage of asking ourselves, “Is society eugenic enough already?” To be clear, no measure needs to be permanent; and whether or not we have gone far enough can be examined periodically. Right now, that’s not our worry.

Dharmicreality says:

@Mossadnik,

Seems you are focusing on curing the symptoms rather than the underlying disease. Which is also typical of modern western medicine.

The underlying disease is literally the evil elite class and the insane state region. Fix that and the state religion, restore natural hierarchy and patriarchy and most of the downstream problems like a troublesome and victim-mentality slave class become insignificant.

Mossadnik says:

> Seems you are focusing on curing the symptoms rather than the underlying disease.

I proceed from the assumption — which others may dispute — that certain aspects of Modernity will not be done away with soon enough, effectively enough, or (in some cases) at all.

“And then we helicoptered some libtards and proclaimed America to be Christian Taliban country and everything worked out for the best” is no less capeshit than some other propositions; possibly it is even more so.

Always have a Plan B.

Fidelis says:

The issue is the application of your program. You have no method to actually distinguish who is and is not a natural slave, especially not so on a collective society level. We can wax on all day about things we want, but it’s just being silly until you have an actionable plan.

Anyone can invent a utopia, but it’s just wordceling until you provide a true means to your proposed ends. Names and addresses of these natural slaves of yours. Who is there preventing Xy fetuses from fruiting? How are they going about it? The second you stop and consider practical application, you realize its impractical to implement on a state level.

Mossadnik says:

> The issue is the application of your program.

I absolutely, emphatically do not have a “program”; and have said so from the very beginning.

(I raise general ideas for debate, which are sometimes accepted and sometimes rejected.)

Mossadnik says:

(Correction for the sake of consistency: I did in fact refer to the aforementioned idea as a “program.” But it’s obviously not that, but rather the seed from which a future program may or may not be built. Anyway, good-faith objections are always welcome, and some of my ideas — past, present, and possibly future — are not necessarily the best ones out there. Anyway, preventing this comment section from echo-chambering is valuable in itself, even if a certain idea happens to be reminiscent of Pharaoh or other villains.)

Mossadnik says:

Jews should stop demanding that everyone kiss kosher ass and visit The Wall. It’s a cringe and embarrassing custom anyway. We should rebuild the Temple in all its glory and wipe off the national humiliation inflicted upon us by having a Mohammedan Abomination on the Temple Mount; then we can ask visitors to show up there and pay their respects. The Western Wall is a pile of rocks and non-Jews (or even Jews themselves) should not pay any respect to it whatsoever.

Stop alienating future President Vance, my fellow kikes.

Mossadnik says:

By the way, I advocate for the Temple not because I believe that we need it to get closer to God. Rather, it’s that allowing there to be an Islamic Compound on God’s Mountain — when we are sovereign on our land — is Cosmic Cuckoldry on our part. We should remove Al-Aqsa even if we do not rebuild the Temple. Did Jesus Christ Himself not prophesy (Luke 21:24),

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

?

So whoever tells you that “Mossadnik from Jim’s Blog must be the Antichrist because he wants to rebuild the Temple” is literally counter-signalling the words of Christ. Maybe I really am the Antichrist, but my advocacy for the Temple has absolutely nothing to do it. (Also, I don’t really intend to visit the future Temple for any religious purposes. Whenever I go to Jerusalem, which I rarely do, I much prefer the restaurants for their delectable cuisine and the churches for their magnificent visuals; Mount Zion is less my thing, really.)

FrankNorman says:

So whoever tells you that “Mossadnik from Jim’s Blog must be the Antichrist because he wants to rebuild the Temple” is literally counter-signalling the words of Christ

The term Antichrist is defined by the Apostle John as meaning anyone who denies that Jesus is the Messiah. Plenty of such people in the part of the world that Mossadnik lives in, but he’s obviously not one of them.

Mossadnik says:

What about someone who believes that the Bible (both Testaments) is much more mythological than it is historical, but who promotes Cultural Christianity for social health and other reasons?

FrankNorman says:

I don’t think that’s quite the kind of person that the Apostle John had in mind when he used the term.

Hesiod says:

NYT article triumphantly showcasing the finished products of spiteful mutants desecrating Confederate memorials:

https://archive.ph/yQ3FN

Kara Walker, the alleged artist, is your bog-standard dead-eyed nigger with an asymmetrical smile. However, the outrage this was meant to cause is quite dampened by the restorations Trump and Hegseth have already done and will continue. It’s up to us to preserve the past by creating new art to replace that which was lost.

alf says:

Well this ticks all the boxes doesn’t it. Beautifal art, desecrated. Vandalised into something hideous, proudly presented. And lol at that fat black woman posing naked as a slave, both incredibly cliched and impressively representative.

Pax Imperialis says:

I fully support their next brave and stunning act of moral superiority when they tear down and desecrate the disgusting statures celebrating misogynistic slavers, mutilator of bodies, and abductors. I of course refer to the Apaches. 🙃

Oh wait… those are oppressed peoples of color, never mind. It gets all so confusing knowing at times who is to be the subject of moral outrage these days. 🙃

Bavrop says:

[*deleted for not conforming to the moderation policy*]

There are thousands of videos documenting Putin’s strikes on purely innocent civilians and their homes. Even now piling up in War Crimes tribunals evidence repositories.
[*deleted for not conforming to the moderation policy*]

Jim says:

We see that the Ukrainians use civilians as human shields, for example locating a patriot missile system between two tall apartment complexes, we similarly saw major secondary explosions inside a school.

They would not do this if Putin was not trying to minimise civilian casualties;

Pax Imperialis says:

War crime this, war crime that, war crime, war crime war crime […] ad nausium

Yet not one of those “moral” authorities particularly cared about America wiping entire cities off the map during WW2, nor about more recent actions like the bombing of Serbia, nor about the plethora of incidents during GWOT, nor about American led strikes deep into Russia on civilian infastructure and nuclear deterrence (which serve no purpose for the war in Ukraine), nor about American support of Ukraine doing the very same that Russia stands accused of for years in the Donbas, nor for the recent Ukrainian strikes on civilians in Moscow, nor for etc etc etc etc….

Look, war is a brutish thing that involves butchering the enemy, and the only goal that matters is victory. To that end any loser will inevitably be declared a “war criminal” for one thing or another, and in purely moral terms, such a term is rendered moot.

Hesiod says:

https://pjmedia.com/catherinesalgado/2025/10/24/anonymous-billionaire-pays-130m-for-troops-salaries-n4945215

Trump described his conversation with the anonymous donor, “He called us the other day and said, ‘I’d like to contribute any shortfall you have because of the Democrat shutdown
 because I love the military and I love the country.’”

He who pays the piper calls the tune. Maybe it was Bruce Wayne…

Pax Imperialis says:

By failing to publish a calendar or set a date of return, the Speaker of the House caused the House of Representatives to cease to exist as an active governing body
 and nobody noticed.

https://jameslbruno.substack.com/p/the-coup-weve-feared-has-already

Article by a leftist, but lmao it’s worth a read if you can ignore all the sanctimonious screeching, now I hope this “coup” goes on forever.

There is much speculation on who donated the money for the military to continue paying service members. Someone pointed out that it would be just about 1% of Elon Musk’s revenue, which if true he could alone sustain this donation indefinitely.

Hysterical claims of government shutdown slowing down the economy are abound, but I can’t help but think that at least they are no longer creating more damage, and that a permanent shutdown would go a long ways for actual growth. This situation just seems win-win for all parties (that matter) involved.

Hesiod says:

But first
the cognitive dissonance of the Right:

Observing Trump bend, circumvent, or break the law to benefit his friends yet pervert the law to terrorize his enemies is somehow ‘good for America’ and will only help Republicans while only targeting Democrats.

Bolton and Comey are both Republicans. No one is safe from the whims of the Great Leader.

LOL!

As Wang Chi says, “I’ve got a very positive attitude about this.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAhmTV1MjzY

Mayflower Sperg says:

Shutting down EBT and Section 8 would be a huge win for working Americans because food and rent would suddenly become affordable again.

notglowing says:

Hard to say how much of a whitepill this really is because they’ve been crying wolf for a decade now.
I enjoy hearing leftists say this kind of stuff but it reminds me of QAnon nonsense just from the opposite side’s mouth. I somehow doubt he’s the Speaker has shut down the House permanently.

We will probably not even be thinking about this anymore in a few months when things go back to business as usual.

Jim says:

What the Speaker has done is put up a procedural roadblock against Rinos who want to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Since in their minds the merely temporary government has no right to meddle in the permanent government, this, to them, equates to cancelling “democracy” — Trump is acting like a King in attempting to govern and attempting to carry out the program on which he was elected.

Jim says:

I have often remarked that disputes over sovereign authority escalate until decisively resolved.

If they are ever allowed to return to power, will silence all speech in defence of “tolerance”, kill all dissidents, in defence of “democracy”, then all suspected dissidents, then all potential dissidents, then all suspected potential dissidents, and then each other.

Edit_XYZ says:

Pokrovsk has fallen to the russians. It’s encircled, 70% cleaned up.

Jim says:

> Pokrovsk has fallen to the russians

The most obvious indication that Pokrovsk has fallen to the Russians being all the Ukrainian victory announcements coming from the Ukrainian shills

“Game Over: Ukraine broke Russia at Pokrovsk”

“Putin’s troops SURRENDER near Pokrovsk as British Storm Shadow missiles hit Russia”

“Ukrainian counteroffensiver near Pokrovsk: Lands were liberated, dozens of occupiers captured”

“Pokrovsk is becoming a new cemetery for the Russian army: Russians flee and some surrender.”

What in fact happened is that for some considerable time, the roads in and out of Pokrovsk have been under Russian fire control.

The mighty victories they keep reporting are references to their attempts to reopen the way into and out of the Pokrovsk agglomeration. Here and there they push the Russians back, but not far enough to reopen the roads, and here and there the Russians push them back. It is kind of a draw, except that so long as the roads remain closed it is not a draw.

Freddo Frog says:

Interestingly, the city was renamed Pokrovsk in 2016, to honour the Intercession of the Theotokos in protecting Constantiople in the tenth century, ironically from invading Slavs. The full name of the feast day for the event is “ĐŸĐŸĐșŃ€ĐŸĐČ ĐŸŃ€Đ”ŃĐČŃŃ‚ĐŸĐč ВлаЎычОцы ĐœĐ°ŃˆĐ”Đč Đ‘ĐŸĐłĐŸŃ€ĐŸĐŽĐžŃ†Ń‹ Đž ĐŸŃ€ĐžŃĐœĐŸĐŽĐ”ĐČы Мароо” or “The Protection of Our Most Holy Lady the Theotokos and Ever-Virgin Mary”.

One wonders if the efforts to which the Ukrainians have gone to stop the Russians from taking the city are in any way reflective of its symbolism.

https://orthodoxwiki.org/Protection_of_the_Mother_of_God

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pokrovsk

https://days.pravoslavie.ru/Days/20251001.html

https://orthochristian.com/calendar/20251001.html

FrankNorman says:

One wonders if the efforts to which the Ukrainians have gone to stop the Russians from taking the city are in any way reflective of its symbolism.

Which side in the conflict would care more about things like that?

The Cominator says:

The troops being paid by a private donor made me think of late Rome
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IQy64zUuRk

Benton says:

Good to know that the Left thinks Muhammad the Muslim getting in a quickie on your daughters is just fine.

@visegrad24
A Swedish court has ruled that the Eritrean migrant who raped 16-year-old Meya Åberg won’t be deported because the rape didn’t last long enough. The rape took place on September 1st last year when Meya missed her bus and was walking through a pedestrian tunnel after finishing her shift at McDonald’s. Meya and her family immediately reported it to the police. The 18-year-old Eritrean migrant, named Yazied Mohamed, was sentenced to 3 years in prison for rape. Mohamed is a citizen of Eritrea, and the prosecutor sought his deportation. However, the Court of Appeal noted that the man has refugee status. Under Swedish law, deporting a refugee requires that the crime committed constitutes an “exceptionally serious offense” and that allowing them to remain in Sweden would pose a “serious threat to public order and safety.” The rape of 16-year-old Meya was not deemed serious enough to justify deportation, with the Court of Appeal citing, among other factors, the “duration” of the rape in its assessment. “Rape is, in many cases, considered an exceptionally serious offense that could lead to the deportation of a refugee, but an assessment must be made based on all circumstances in the individual case. Given the nature and duration of the offense in question, the Court of Appeal finds that while the crime is serious, it does not constitute an exceptionally serious offense that would warrant a deportation order for Yazied Mohamed. The request for deportation is therefore rejected,” the Court of Appeal for Upper Norrland wrote in its ruling.

Jim says:

No end of shills have been sending in comments referencing this event. Allowing this one through as, unlike all the others, it correctly blames the left for empowering Islam, rather than pointing in some other direction.

But you, Benton, are still on moderation.

Benton says:

Good to know that the Left thinks Muhammad the Muslim raping your daughters is fine, because otherwise the Muslim men would have to fulfill the regular military service obligation of their own country.

@visegrad24
Sweden won’t deport a second Eritrean migrant who raped a Swedish woman while driving her home in his taxi. The Swedish Migration Agency now says that the Eritrean taxi rapist can’t be deported because he would be sent into mandatory military service in Eritrea, which the Swedish authorities consider inhumane: “Considering the very harsh conditions generally prevailing in the military part of such service, as well as the indefinite and prolonged duration of the service, he risks being subjected to inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment upon return to Eritrea,” the Swedish Migration Agency’s lawyer Michael Rönndahl writes in his statement, adding: “The Migration Agency therefore assesses that there are obstacles to enforcing a deportation decision.” The Chief Prosecutor Stefan Ekeroth had requested for the migrant rapist to be deported to Eritrea after his imprisonment. That will now almost certainly not happen because the Swedish Migration Agency values the rapist’s human rights over those of his victim.

Mossadnik says:

I suggest that if she were raped (or “raped”) by a fellow Swede, then Deuteronomy 22:28-29 should apply.

In the actual case, better to apply Genesis 34, if you pardon the fedpost. But obviously the Left is primarily responsible for causing the situation by importing infinigger.

Genesis 34 is there for a reason, ahem ahem.

Handi says:

Bad reference. Genesis 34 is a story of white knights blaming the man for their sister slutting around, and committing egregious perfidy in their vengeance. Jacob condemns them at the end and again in Genesis 49.

A better justification for your proposal is simply that the law needn’t protect the life of an invasive alien, because that’s retarded.

Mossadnik says:

The point that you missed is that a member of the ingroup who rapes/seduces [doesn’t matter] your sister needs to marry her; a member of the outgroup who rapes/seduces [doesn’t matter] your sister is highly likely to receive an altogether different treatment.

FrankNorman says:

But obviously the Left is primarily responsible for causing the situation by importing infinigger.

This.

And yes, makes sense to me that the Deuteronomic rules about fornication or rape should not apply to such a situation.

Mossadnik says:

> And yes, makes sense to me that the Deuteronomic rules about fornication or rape should not apply to such a situation.

Yes. Similarly, they do not apply to war-rape, in that if an enemy combatant rapes (or, for that matter, seduces – many such cases!) your virgin daughter, there is no expectation for marriage to follow afterwards. The situation herein described is not that different, in fact, as infinnigers are the Left’s soldiers in the war against Western Civilization.

You find ’em, you hang ’em.

Handi says:

I already stated that point myself if you would care to read my comment. Stated differently, the law is always to be interpreted in favor of those who actually follow it.

Where I differ is in inverting scripture that depicts an explicitly negative example of action, to present it as a positive one. You are importing a whole lot of wrathfulness, treachery, and agreement incapability from that story by grasping on the broad situational pattern instead of its moral core.

Mossadnik says:

> grasping on the broad situational pattern instead of its moral core.

While I can understand why a petty, obsessive midwit like you would read my humorous comment that way, I did not actually do any such thing.

Handi says:

Ho hum. My argument is sound, and you are reduced to your usual barbs and deflections.

Mossadnik says:

Your “argument” is a failed attempt to caricaturize my Scripture-based explication of Divine Law.

No dice, Handjobber. Keep flailing.

Benton says:

[*deleted for not conforming to the moderation policy*]

Sporadic Commenter says:

Jim, any comment on Yarvin’s recent post claiming to have pre-discovered (the correct theoretical grounds to anticipate) Bitcoin maximalism?

My suspicion is that his theoretical argument is less strong than he thinks — a spiral of value increase doesn’t have to go all the way to being the dominant store of value.

Jim says:

I have been saying “There can only be one” for as long as I can remember.

Which is Yarvin’s rather more wordy argument in a nutshell.

Of course store of value is not going to cut it. Money has functions four: A medium, a measure, a standard, a store.

And obviously level one Bitcoin is just incapable of the tps needed to be the medium of exchange. And without this capability, cannot become the one store of value.

To support the tps needed to be the one true medium of exchange we need a blockchain based on the new technology of concise proofs of knowledge, such as for example Nova, where a short proof involving a small amount of data can prove that people knew, or long ago used to know, an enormous proof over an enormous amount of data, and we then need to have a level two bitcoin, also level two tether, filecoin, et cetera, over than blockchain.

Sporadic Commenter says:

> I have been saying “There can only be one” for as long as I can remember.

In the abstract, many people have said for many years that there can’t be multiple reserve currencies (for very long).

Yarvin is claiming that a Nash equilibrium argument among competing savers explains both the origin of money and the Highlander “there can be only one” aspect in modern large low friction economies. I see the argument for an upward spiral, but not for the instability of equilibria below 100 percent causing that to be the only possible asymptotic endpoint.

Jim says:

> I see the argument for an upward spiral, but not for the instability of equilibria below 100 percent causing that to be the only possible asymptotic endpoint.

Metcalfe’s Law, network lockin.

Look it up.

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