I am a fan of the Gnu development environment, ./configure && make && make install, and a subscriber to the Free Software Foundation.
And for a long time my emails from the Free Software Foundation have had only the most superficial connection to free software, and are primarily about the fact that everyone like me is evil and need to go because we oppress women and nams. Also my hatefulness causes blacks to attack Asians.
So I figured that that development environment was going to die as the Star Wars Universe died, and I should move away from it. Shaniqua loves to make software developers suffer, as Star War’s writers love the tears of the fans.
And then, suddenly strangely, and surprisingly, I started once again getting emails from the Free Software Foundation about Free Software. (that is “free” as in “free speech”, not “free” as in “free beer”.)
And not long after that, I saw a spray of outrage from converged and extremely unfree free software organizations, whose software projects are dying of bitrot under Shaniqua’s curation, about the Free Software foundation.
All of the organizations listed are actually one organization with a variety of sock puppets and letterheads, an organization with absolutely no interest in software, and which is distinctly hostile to software developers, viewing them as white male deplorables.
Rather, the progressive priesthood noticed the existence of another priesthood among software engineers, and vigorously attempted to converge it. Since convergence was having insufficient success, not in that the software priesthood espoused red pilled views, but that they failed to view knowledge of the latest shibboleths for sexual perversions as higher status than the latest shibboleths about software, the progressive priesthood proceeded to use more vigorous and aggressive measures, similar to those it has been using against “nazis” and “fascists”. The existence of high status shibboleths that it had not deemed high status enraged them.
To which attack, the software priesthood responded like a wet noodle. I was shocked and outraged by the feebleness and gutlessness of ESR’s limpwristed pushback when a bunch of sockpuppets in his comments section set to doing to some other man in the free software movement what had earlier been done to ESR.
The Software Priesthood is still saying “we are progressives too”, but this has not been working for them. The only thing that is going to work is identifying and purging the enemy. And since they made no attempt to identify and purge the enemy, I figured that they were a lost cause.
Well, the Software Priesthood are showing signs of life. And the enemy is becoming more visible and distinct as the enemy, shedding its “hail fellow engineer” disguise. The enemy just does not like Western Civilization, nor any of the things that Western Civilization in its greatness created, because what Western Civilization in its greatness created makes their mascots look like plains apes.
This may well turn out to be merely another Comicsgate, which was rapidly conquered by enemy entryists, but the people running the entryists against Comicsgate were smarter than the fans. They are nowhere near as smart as the people they have been purging from the Free Software movement. We shall see what happens.
What I am seeing the Free Software Foundation doing is trying to keep a low profile and focus on free software “Hey, we are non political. We are not interested in politics.”
You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you. The real Free Software Movement are coming on board, very quietly and very reluctantly.
Re: the prog belief that there is a terribly unbalanced amount of males and females in programming careers, sometimes you hear a narrative that goes like this:
Google for “programming womens work” and you will get pages of results along those lines.
So, what really happened? How much are they exaggerating the prevalence of female programmers, what was the actual nature of their work, and what were the real reasons the demographics followed the historical course that they did?
Typists. Data entry.
Not programmers. Women were “programmers” back when men had their secretary type up a letter for them. Now that men type, and the role and job of typist is no more, female “programmers” vanished. Similarly my late wife used to handle my mail and organize my itinerary when she was healthy, and my new wife is gradually starting to take over handling my mail.
Back when we programmed by punching holes in cards, it was women doing the punching.
If you read up on the codebreakers during world war II, you will see that the actual codebreakers were one hundred percent male, but they had a horde of women under them entering data and managing and organizing the data, as my late wife managed my mail. Those are the “programmers” that your links are talking about, the horde of typists under the actual codebreakers.
You want to know the first programmers? Look at the codebreakers. All male, with a horde of typists.
Thought so.
Read on the interwebs:
Why am I not surprised? I’ll be moving off [small enterprise software vendor] as soon as I can help it. A shame, because it truly is a great product, for now.
Women left unsupervised with other peoples money almost always do this. This is not an AWALT case there is a small minority of women who are good with money period (Paris Hilton is actually a great example and she did not start out with all that much money) but it is the general rule.
Shopify follows Basecamp, more or less.
“Outside of those cases we need to remind everyone that like any other competitive (sports) team, it matters how you show up every day and contribute to the team’s success. Beyond straight performance output, everyone that engages in endless Slack trolling, victimhood thinking, us-vs-them divisiveness, and zero sum thinking must be seen for the threat they are: they break teams. Teams survive and thrive on the actions of the collective, and the cohesiveness of the whole. Poor performance and divisiveness cannot be tolerated. ”
https://www.businessinsider.com/shopify-ceo-email-to-managers-we-are-not-a-family-2021-5
aw, that’s cute. they think they are pulling a thermidor.
they’re in for a BIG surprise.
The squishy Basecamp sends out orders to refocus on work while at work, 1/3 of employees ragequit.
https://world.hey.com/jason/changes-at-basecamp-7f32afc5
https://mobile.twitter.com/CaseyNewton/status/1388212468510380034
I’d call that a rather nice outcome.
Social Justice was re-orienting the company from making money to making holiness. Owners found their testicles.
But for how long, I wonder…
I don’t know about Jason Fried, but DHH was previously the subject of an outrage fest over his defending the use of pictures of chicks in a slide presentation, so this is hardly his first rodeo.
Not very long apparently. Apologizing, you’re done.
Pity because in addition to the ‘no politics at work’ rule the packet of changes had the even more significant ‘no committees’ rule — identifiable decisions are made by identifiable people, therefore no laundering dumb and malicious decisions through ‘consensus’. People making good decisions get credibility, people making dumb and malicious decisions go out the door.
From the 11.3 Big Sur release notes
Regarding another software developer, family claims it was diabetes related (ketoacidosis). How a high tech software guru would mismanage diabetes to bring on ketoacidosis is beyond me. He was also virtue signalling on social media about getting vax’ed.
“Legendary Internet Scientist Dan Kaminsky Dead Ten Days After Second Pfizer Shot”
https://dailystormer.su/legendary-security-pro-dan-kaminsky-dead-ten-days-after-second-pfizer-shot/
The vaccine is killing people at about the same rate as China Flu.
But it is killing who look healthy, while China Flu just gives a little push to people with one foot on the grave and already wobbling.
It was obviously the vaccine that killed him, because he mentions blood clotting.
The vaccine, like most vaccines, is apt to provoke autoimmune reactions. Among the auto immune reactions it creates is a reaction to your own blood, which causes out of control blood clotting.
You had said the vaccine was not much of a risk to healthy people just as China Flu is not much of a risk to healthy people. Do you think that’s no longer the case given these cases of seemingly healthy people dieing from the vaccine?
Yes. I was wrong. I was guessing from regular flu vaccines, but most people dying of the China flu vaccine are middle aged, and have only normal levels of obesity.
Nearly everyone dying “from” China flu is old, frail, has multiple organ failure, which usually indicates death is imminent regardless, and is usually morbidly obese. When young people die “of” China flu, which they rarely do, they also have morbid obesity and multiple organ failure indicating that death was likely imminent before they got the flu.
Health complications are a risk factor for the vaccine, but not a dominant factor. Most of the people dying of the vaccine have no particular health complications.
Most vaccine deaths are caused by out of control clotting caused by autoimmune reaction to one’s own blood, and people are directly killed by their own blood even though their blood circulation and clotting was perfectly fine before the vaccine. Most deaths from China flu are caused by impaired oxygen intake in someone who is already suffering from impaired oxygen supply to vital organs.
There are also a whole lot of people, not being reported, who are not being killed by the vaccine but suffer strokes causing permanent brain damage.
China flu is a low risk disease. It is not polio or smallpox. And its vaccine is high risk vaccine. China flu is an ordinary low risk disease, and China flu vaccine is an ordinary high risk vaccine.
Is this incompetence of the vaccine manufacturers or is there something more sinister going on?
All vaccines have some risk, some more than others. If you are producing a vaccine for a low risk disease (and despite all the hysteria, China Flu has turned out to be a disease of quite ordinary risk) it is non trivial to produce a vaccine of lower risk. You really should not take a vaccination against any low risk disease.
There are plans to coerce people into getting the injection. The coercion seems evil, specially given the, for most, hugely unfavorable risk tradeoff.
I pray that there is a popular backlash to the injections, due to the terrible side-effects, and that sufficient outrage will undo the plans for the evil injection passports, lockdowns, masks mandates..
The US has just about to hit the max level of people who will voluntarily get the vaccine. The arm twisting begins soon.
Perhaps our host could give us some thoughts on whether travel, movement and other restrictions based on being injected will come, and be competently enforced.
Note in the EU the Council of Europe ruled against mandatory vacciones, and later the European Court of Human Rights ruled mandatory vaccines A-OK.
Depending on whether, and how much, of life is restricted based on injection-status, I may have to try to get out as quickly as possible.
I hear Japan is passing legislation so the non-injected are not discriminated.
I believe Florida/Texas banned vaccine passports which put a road block with their plans. I think they’ll go for international vaccine passports first, implemented by the airlines. Once that is complete they’ll go after domestic again.
Looks like EU already approved vaccine passports for US citizens traveling to Europe starting this summer.
https://www.wbur.org/npr/990818111/vaccinated-u-s-travelers-will-be-allowed-to-visit-europe-again-starting-this-sum
If I remember well, vax passports had two options: 1) you’re vaxxed, 2) you present recent negative PCR and you quarantine.
So vax would be optional but costly, not yet mandatory.
I mean “So non-vax would be costly, and vax not yet mandatory”.
As far as I can tell, currently the vast majority of EU countries are not allowing US travelers at all. This announcement is saying they will now re-open to US citizens in the summer who are vaccinated. It’s unknown if they will exempt that requirement with a negative test but I wouldn’t necessarily bank on it.
There does seem to be some lee way for individual countries to ease their requirements so one might be able to get in through, say, Croatia with just a negative test and then travel to a more strict country from there.
Pooch wrote:
Thanks. I did not know that.
What I read about vax-pass being vax or PCR+quarantine were for travel inside EU, but even that I’m not sure how it will work.
I’m in EU so I may have to plan leaving before vax-pass means mandatory vax.
There still seems to be alot of unknowns and it may come down to the policy of each individual country. For example, Greece is allowing US citizens currently with what your saying a proof of Vax or negative PCR. Iceland on the other hand is apparently only allowing proof of Vax or Proof of already being recovered from the virus (negative test doesn’t seem to matter there).
https://thepointsguy.com/news/europe-open-vaccinated-americans-summer/
The arm twisting already began:
https://rudd-o.com/archives/vaccine-segregation-is-officially-here/index
Has Jim given us the word on Covid 19 yet? My personal view leans towards it being designed and functionally optimized in the Wuhan Institute of Virology, then escaping, whether intentionally or not.
All of what has been going on since then might be seen as a reasonably benign test of modern biowarfare and the response thereto.
https://blog.reaction.la/uncategorized/the-cathedral-and-the-holiness-spiral/#comment-2476716
By all reports Covaxin made by Bharat Biotech India indigenously is a traditional vaccine. I think it might be safer than the American Pfizer one if you absolutely *must* get vaccinated. Not sure of its availability in other countries.
Maybe China flu vaccine is an ordinary high risk vaccine, but howw do you know?
Based on short-term adverse reactions, your claim is reasonable, but what about long-term adverse reactions?
At present, I think that China flu vaccine is at best an ordinary high risk vaccine
The 2 shot vaccines are much worse than normal vaccines according to the people I know who’ve taken them. Making people take a second shot with an already priming the immune systems results in a lot of damage.
Worse there’s no real reason to get 2 shots. The vaccines are 80% effective at 8 weeks with a single shot.
The J&J vaccines appears safer, whit blood clot rate below that of birth control pills, but as Jim indicated they’re probably not counting people who gets strokes from the vaccine.
Oddly, that was the one they paused.
I’m not sure based on personal statistics. I would estimate in the US approximately the same number of people have been vax’ed as have gotten Covid.
Through relations and acquaintances I know of five people who have died of Covid.
Mom’s first cousin ~90
Spouse of dad’s first cousin mid 70s
Grade school classmate of sister late 50s
Wife’s best friend’s brother in-law late 40s/early 50s
Old acquaintance of wife ~80
—-
In addition two friends of wife, a couple, came down with it and recovered. Mid 60s. They said it was not pleasant.
I know of no one connected to use who has suffered any vaccination complications beyond typical sore shoulder, temp feeling lousy, etc. Only strangers in the (underground) news.
Yes, when covid came in it killed a rather more people than the vaccine is likely to kill.
But now covid is over, and the vaccine is just beginning.
Sailer has published a graph today of excess deaths over time over expected upper bound actuarial deaths (orange line).
Money quote, “As you can see, there were a lot of excess deaths in 2020 and early 2021. It wasn’t the Black Death, but it wasn’t nothing either.”
…
“As you can see, the pandemic killed a whole bunch of people, some of whom likely didn’t have long to live anyway. It could be that total deaths will therefore drop below average in the near future due to the people who would die then having already died due to the virus.”
https://www.unz.com/isteve/weekly-total-deaths-finally-returning-to-normal/
Stallman is trolling methinks.
https://news.slashdot.org/story/21/04/24/0516221/richard-stallmans-blog-asks-am-i-doctor-stallman
Meanwhile, Mozilla really does seem to be SJW central.
https://news.slashdot.org/story/21/03/29/0439234/richard-stallmans-return-denounced-by-the-eff-tor-project-mozilla-and-the-creator-of-rust
Even Rust, a baby of Mozilla, is tainted.
Don’t forget Mozilla’s former CEO Brendan Eich being force out after it was revealed that he donated to California’s Proposition 8 (anti-gay marriage initiative). Whereupon he promptly founded Brave.
According to wikipedia: “In 2020, during the COVID-19 pandemic, Eich ardently denied the effectiveness of face masks and lockdowns in combating the transmission of COVID-19 and stated of the United States’ top immunologist: “[Anthony] Fauci lies a lot”, sparking calls for his removal from Brave on social media.”
Wow had no idea how based Eich was.
Evident from the start with their codes of conduct and various louche participants, such as Steve Klabnick. But with that said, Rust still somehow looks quite interesting.
I am of the understanding that Rust’s compile-time borrow checker was a genuinely new innovation at the time upon the existing ways of managing memory, which were to either do it manually (C and C++) or to rely on a garbage collector (Java, C#, JavaScript, Python, and many more). So Rust is attractive for that feature. I’ve personally found it pleasant to play around with and use for small personal projects (the compile time error messages are nice), but I have no experience of what it’s like at scale or in business.
There’s this other recent language called Pony, fairly obscure, originally made by guys who worked at an investment bank. It approaches the memory management problem using something called reference capabilities, and many compile-time checks around how variables are used. Very reminiscent of Rust’s borrow checker, but not quite the same.
Rust’s borrow checker is a clever, perhaps too clever, idea. It’s algebraic types are great. Algebraic types are clearly the way everyone should do stuff.
But I simply do not make memory errors. Ever. I don’t need the borrow checker. I use RAII and exceptions. The only time I have ever gotten a memory error is when someone else’s package was doing strange and overly clever things, and I was not using the package “correctly”, correct use being far from obvious.
Go’s message passing, and Rust’s algebraic types, are important and useful innovations. Borrow checking is not that useful to me.
Long ago my son wrote a program where he had a pointer point to values on the stack, and used the pointer after that part of the stack was no more. He wondered why the program was mysteriously going off the rails. I explained to him, and, to the best of my knowledge, he never got memory errors again. Some people just don’t need those guard rails. They can wield a bare razor blade and not cut themselves.
On the other hand, C++ automatic type coercion causes me no end of grief. I want to use types for metaprogramming, and type coercion does surprising things. C++ metaprogramming using types sucks. To metaprogram with types, you need type transformation to be more controllable and predictable.
Information about type coercion needs to be associated with not just the type being coerced, but also the operator for which it is being coerced, and the characteristics of the expression within which coercion is happening.
Surprise access to memory is for me, a solved problem. Surprise typing is not.
Haskell’s typing system is good for metaprogramming. In Haskell, programming with types is not metaprogramming, it is programming.
Rust’s compile time borrow checker is a genuinely new and interesting innovation.
But it is one that I and my sons have never needed.
Haskell’s type families, associated types, type classes, and traits, on the other hand, do address a problem with C++ that has caused me and continues to cause me no end of grief.
For a long time I ignored Haskell because of my automatic contempt and derision towards purely functional languages. And then I recently discovered that Haskell is not a purely functional language. It has monads.
The monads get compiled to a very simple intermediate purely functional language, which then gets compiled to the procedural actual object code (which makes for very slow compiles, but a very elegant model machine. Of course as soon as you explicitly introduce threads, you are complicating that very simple model machine.)
Haskell is a language that everyone talks about but nobody uses. Maybe there is a reason why nobody uses it. Go has dramatic advantages with massively concurrent programming. Julia has dramatic advantages with generic programming. Rust has modest advantages, but it is the only new disruptive language that has the C and C++ advantage that you can write low level code. It provides a moderate advantage in the space where you have to actually engage the hardware. Haskel is the highest level language for doing regular old type programming.
Haskell is a bit like APL. It is an upgrade on what we have been doing for a very long time. We need upgrades on code re-use and massively concurrent programming, what we are now doing, so Haskell, like APL is likely to die on the vine.
Go addresses the problem of massively parallel hardware, that you have a lot of programmers writing software that will run on a lot of machines. It also addresses the large team full of idiots problem, which the opposite of the approach used by Haskell. They left out a lot of features because they wanted to support massive hardware, and they also wanted to support very large numbers of dumb cheap programmers on the team. Its central feature is that massive concurrency is built right into the language, and they threw out everything else because everything else tends to break when you have a large team, and not everyone else on the team is all that smart. And when you need the capabilities of some other language, as you frequently do, Go can call out to C, and C can call out to anything.
Rust’s huge advantage is that though it is no easier to do massive concurrency in rust than in C, maybe harder, it can produce multithreaded code that just not have the dreaded race condition, which never happens in your test environment, but always happens when doing a demo in front of major investors. It is essentially C++ where you can write multithreaded code that will not have race conditions.
Julia’s massive advantage is code re-use, which advantage will accelerate as it becomes more popular. Julia allows you to throw big code, code from a whole lot of people, at big data, inhomogeneous data from a whole lot of people, on big hardware. And it supports massive concurrency in some ways better than Go does. Does not do so well on the thousand connections problem, when one has a thousand clients connected to a tiny system, which problem Go solves wonderfully. It targets massive number crunching, rather than a very large number of concurrent processes – a different concurrency problem to that addressed by Go.
What is Haskell’s massive advantage? It is good at expressing problems at a very high level of abstraction. Which ought to translate into massive code re-usability like Julia, but somehow does not.
Cardano is written in Haskell.
I used hyperbole. I really love Pandoc, written in Haskell, which has made my life a whole lot easier, and would have been hard to write in any other language.
The core thing about Pandoc is that its underlying document model is directly represented in Haskell itself, which can only be done in a language that supports a very high level of abstraction.
But a lot more people are talking about Haskell (techie status signaling) than actually using it.
Haskell at the start chose the idealistic but wrong path, lazy evaluation, followed by extended, titanic struggles to get rid of it and code around it. The language seems lately to have become mostly an experimental workshop for type checking/inference/… as various extensions.
Despite some successes outside academia, I think Haskell’s day is more or less done. Rust took most or all the useful features of Haskell (or more broadly, functional languages) and also became what looks like a worthy successor of C/C++. That is quite interesting. Meanwhile, Haskell is weighed down by various historical decisions. We’re still in the honey moon period with Rust, of course.
My understanding is that Haskell gave up on lazy evaluation, which is intolerably flawed (operations can unpredictably and unexpectedly take an astronomical amount of time and memory) and instead compile to an intermediate model machine guaranteed to give the same result as if lazy evaluation was employed, that after endless struggles to code around it, they did indeed get rid of it.
Yes, Haskell does seem to be in slow decline, never quite reaching the immortality level.
Rust has sophisticated type inference, sum types, product types, and traits, like Haskell. What else did it swipe from functional languages?
At one point the rust developers were thinking about Go’s massive lightweight concurrency. Rust, Julia and Go implement parallelism in a fashion that we now know is essential (channels) but Rust and Julia do not scale to huge numbers of concurrent processes the way Go does.
Rust green threads were intended to be the answer to Go’s massively concurrent goroutines, but they seem to have gone away and never returned.
What historical decisions do you think are weighing Haskell down?
IMO Haskell’s major weakness is the decision to justify fairly simple and elegant concepts such as monads in terms of metaphors from complicated masturbatory ‘category theory’. (I started reading the paper on ‘arrows’ which seemed like a good idea for describing event driven systems, saw the deliberately-obfuscatory explanation, and decided I should stop.) This changes it from a language most people would want to learn into a language most people learn for status signaling.
Rust’s major weakness is that they went with a non-precise spec (‘the implementation is the spec’ / “We intend to produce such a book someday, and until then, the reference is the closest thing we have to one”). Its other major weakness is dependency on LLVM, which is ultra-vulnerable to version churn. This is about what you’d expect for an SJW-run project: politics doesn’t stop people from having good ideas, but there is no social mechanism to stop people from having bad ideas or to be a hardass and force people to document their ideas or engineer for backwards compatibility over the long term (“ Edition Differences: In the 2015 edition, this syntax is valid that is disallowed as of the 2018 edition.”) ‘Implementation is the spec’ works for Ruby only because it’s run by an extremely cautious and paranoid benevolent dictator.
Yeah I’ve had to deal with heaps of churn in my rust code to keep up. There was that massive bifurcation of libs when the async syntax hit.
Rust green threads now exist at the library level. The most popular library is https://tokio.rs. It was hard to use until they shipped the ‘async’ syntax in 2019. It’s got really killer performance.
I’d add Lisp-ish syntax tree macros to that list.
Haskell is still default lazy as far as I know, but given the time-space problems you mention, you’re, er, not supposed to use it. And the compiler has to do strictness analysis to try to get rid of unnecessary laziness, or you can wrestle it into submission. All for what is a small possible gain. In summary: the wrong default.
The syntax is disagreeable, e.g., partial applications or the APL-like write-only programs one arrives at every now and then. The experimental past also leads to various practical trouble with extensions. Though in some of these respects I’m mostly thinking of GHC, the gorilla implementation.
One might say it gets more and more difficult over time for Haskell to answer ‘why not just use Rust instead?’
Rust took some general functional concepts like map and fold, and heavily uses a Maybe type (they call it Option).
“… and heavily uses a Maybe type …”
Fexl has a value called “void”, which behaves like this:
(void x) = void
So void is like a “black hole” that eats anything you give it and just returns itself.
You can use the “is_void” function to determine if a value is void.
The nice thing about void is that it behaves somewhat like an exception mechanism. You can do a whole series of calculations and if anything is void along the way, the whole thing is void. You can check the result anywhere you like, or not at all.
I looked up “map” in Rust, and it sounds like just the equivalent of a C++ std:: trait for sequences. Or at least that is how it is presented. But then they started talking about lazy evaluation, so it sounds like it is not the equivalent of the c++ sequence, but rather of the functional language map. I don’t get it.
In a functional language, you use map to define a potentially enormous data set, just as a join in sql is potentially enormous, and then fold reduces it as
WHEREreduces it in SQL, and, hopefully, due to lazy evaluation, the potentially enormous data set never gets explicitly instantiated. Or if it does get evaluated, as happens a lot in Julia, massive parallelism is magically invoked without you having manage the massive parallelism.What should I look up to find the equivalent of functional language map, fold, and option?
In SQL and Haskell, you define a reasonable size object in terms of a potentially enormous object, and let the compiler figure out a clever way to actually generate the reasonably sized object without actually first generating the enormous size object. The Rust documentation did not seem to address that usage.
With Google’s map-reduce, you actually do generate the enormous object, but let the distributed massively parallel system distribute the task over a thousand computers. Julia is supposed to be able to do the same thing, but I am not that familiar with Julia.
That the Rust documentation hints in passing about lazy evaluation suggests that a Haskell like usage is possible, but I don’t see it.
Re. Rust and laziness: So if we take “map_or” function for the optional type described here: https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/option/enum.Option.html#method.map_or
Notice how the ‘default’ value needs to be supplied. Instead of providing it upfront (because it could be expensive to create, say) you can call ‘map_or_else’ where you instead provide a zero-argument function to produce the default value. So it’s clearly lazy because it’ll never call the function if the default isn’t needed. The example snippet the doc provides (which you can run in the browser) says `|| 2 * k`, which is an anonymous function (actually, a closure) which returns 2 times k.
A lot of functional concepts appear in the Iterator trait: https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/iter/trait.Iterator.html
I know of a Rust library that does map-reduce kinds of work for multiple cores on a single machine: https://github.com/rayon-rs/rayon. It’s basically an OpenMP library for Rust; easy to use and it will saturate your cores.
So,
mapbeing lazy, one can define a very large data structure, a potentially enormous data structure, and not actually instantiate all of it.But this is substantially less than what Haskell and SQL provide, where the compiler figures out a strategy. In Rust, you are going to have to provide the strategy.
Right, you’d have to create it yourself in Rust.
I understand with SQL queries that it’s the DBMS that actually does the planning, but I don’t know of Haskell analogues for that sort of thing. Do you have any names I can look up?
Not really. What I do know is that lazy evaluation was frequently producing programs that ran astronomically slowly, and they replaced it with an optimizing compiler that generate procedural code that was guaranteed to produce results equivalent to lazy evaluation.
optimizing
There has been much work on the topic. You could have a look at this one to get started: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/publication/implementing-lazy-functional-languages-on-stock-hardware-the-spineless-tagless-g-machine/
Plenty of papers after that, some of them quite enjoyable (e.g., unboxed types).
Or this one, which I think was more ‘simulator oriented’: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/publication/implementing-functional-languages-a-tutorial/
“but Rust and Julia do not scale to huge numbers of concurrent processes the way Go does.”
No, but like in most other languages, you can solve that with asynchronous code for I/O bound operations. Which is the kind of situation where you’d consider Go anyways.
With Tokio, I can spawn an obscene number of Tasks doing I/O work asynchronously, and only use a few threads.
It works really well, and I have been writing async code using Tokio for a project I am working on.
Async/await semantics are the next best thing after Goroutines.
Frameworks like Actix-web leverage Tokio to get web server performance superior to any Go framework I know of.
Go’s concurrency model might be superior, but Rust’s lightweight runtime, lack of GC pauses that can cause inconsistent performance, and overall low level control give it the edge it needs to beat Go in practical scenarios.
I looked up Tokio and Actix, looks like exactly what the doctor ordered.
The await asynch syntax and semantics are, in effect, multithreading on cheap threads that only have cooperative yielding.
So you have four real threads, and ten thousand tasks, the effective equivalent of ten thousand cheap “threads”.
I conjecture that the underlying implementation is that asynch await keywords turn your stack into a tree, and each time a branch is created and destroyed, it costs a small memory allocation/deallocation.
With real threads, each thread has its own full stack, and stacks can be costly, while with await/asynch, each task is just a small branch of the tree. Instead of having one top of stack, you have a thousand leaves with one root at start of thread.
It works like an event oriented program, except the message pumps do not have to wait for events to complete. Tasks that are waiting around, such as the message pump itself, can get started on the next thing, while the messages it dispatched are waiting around.
As recursing piles more stuff on the stack, asynching branches the stack, while masses of threads give you masses of stacks, which can quickly bring your computer to a grinding halt.
“Haskell at the start chose the idealistic but wrong path, lazy evaluation, followed by extended, titanic struggles to get rid of it and code around it. ”
Fexl supports lazy evaluation, but eager evaluation is the default when defining a symbol:
\y=(f x)
That evaluates (f x) and binds y to that final value.
If you want a loose definition which is evaluated every time it’s used:
\y==(f x)
You want that if the expression has desirable side effects you want to happen every time, e.g.:
\talk==(say “Hello”)
talk talk talk
Another important feature in Fexl is the “once” form, which evaluates an expression only once, upon demand.
\stuff==(\= read “stuff_I_may_need_in_some_cases”)
if (gt rand 0.5) stuff
You can get the best of eager and lazy evaluation in a function like “map”:
# Apply f to each element in list xs.
\map=
(\f @\loop \xs
xs [] \x\xs
\x=(f x)
[x;\=loop xs]
)
There the function is applied to the tail of the list only if you actually need it.
The Rust borrow checker is a pain in the arse coming from languages like C/C++, but it does force your code to be more organised: the ownership concept forces a tree-structure on your code (you can have cycles but it’s a pain to do).
Plus if you do need to do something outside those restrictions you have those ‘unsafe’ blocks. Any memory problem that crops up can be traced back to one of those blocks.
It’s funny that despite all the degenerates in the Rust community, the language and tooling is genuinely great.
Maybe all the degenerates are kept corralled in the art harem. If so, there is a high risk that they will notice the corral, and have it removed as racism and sexism.
The creator of Rust is a degenerate himself.
Being a degenerate confers long-term survival disadvantages that are more than compensated in the short-term by SJW power structures. Upsetting an apple cart nets you more apples than you could have earned otherwise.
Most “reactionaries” make the mistake of under-estimating the ability and resolve of Leftists, which is a fatal mistake. People like [deleted] should look at Bruce Perens, and Steve Langasek and see the sheer talent arrayed for degeneracy, and plan accordingly.
The Mahabharata teaches us, that just because the Kauravas were evil does not make them weak, in fact it makes them more powerful in the short term. This is how adharma survives. To eradicate them you need to significantly up your power level instead of waiting them to collapse before they kill you.
A pair of developers have publicly summarized the opposite sides of Debian’s post-vote debate fairly well. Their emails are too long to copy comfortably here, but for interested readers, hyperlinks to the emails follow.
1. Anti-FSF/RMS message.
2. Pro-FSF/RMS reply.
3. Anti-FSF/RMS rebuttal.
Summarized quite well by the concluding paragraphs.
Anti techie:
“The demand to lower societal standards for “socially awkward nerds” is a
demand to symbolize a political hegemony: the identity of the “socially
awkward nerd” is to be protected politically, at the expense of the other
members of the free software community, therefore at the expense of the
free software movement and free software itself.”
Meaning that non techies should rule techies. Stallman is a leftist, a commie, but he is a techie. That is what it is all about. They want techies disempowered.
Which is why we cannot build tall buildings any more, and Nasa could not put a man on the space station.
Pro techie:
“Do you want to chase all people who don’t CARE about “f*k t* Na*s”
slogans (or whatever the current opposite is) out of Debian community”
Well, yes, that is exactly what they do want. They demand ever louder affirmations of faith in an ever more demonic religion. They don’t want to have what you have, for you would gladly share what you have. They want you to not have what you have.
You should never have let the demon worshippers in in the first place. You cannot be politically neutral when the other guy is not being neutral. You have to bring a gun to a gunfight and a faith to a holy war.
Christians are required to turn the other cheek, and people attempting to maintain a politically neutral environment should turn the other cheek. But you very quickly run out of cheeks, and then it is on.
People who start politics in an environment intended to be politically neutral have to be purged, and a purge cannot be conducted in a politically neutral manner. You have to target the enemy faith and purge it as the demon worshipping heresy that it is, or else those attempting to maintain political neutrality will be purged as heretics. You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.
That’s about the shape of it.
I happen to lack sufficient pull (for I have never sought sufficient pull) in the Debian Project to move the matter, but if you are right … well, let’s not mince words: you seem substantially to be right.
Your recommendation will not yet be followed by the developers. The techies of which you speak are not yet ready for it, but meanwhile there is one point: the single most influential developer in the Debian Project, the single biggest contributor of useful code and most consistently helpful collaborator during the past 20 years, is an old friend of mine from Oregon named Steve Langasek. Before Steve, the biggest was Bruce Perens.
Both Steve and Bruce are 100 percent pro-SJW.
I don’t know what’s gotten into Steve. I’ve known him and his wife Patty since forever. They’ve always been decent people. I never would have thought that they’d come down so hard on the other side. In fact, Debian’s anti-RMS resolution (which has just failed by a single vote) was drafted and introduced by none other than Steve.
I hardly know Bruce. His greatest cause 20 years ago was to try to persuade Debian Developers to wear coats and ties in public. Now it’s all antiracist virtue signaling and assorted such nonsense.
I have no conclusion with which to end this comment, but you have imparted foreboding. I am unable to contradict your thesis, because it fits all the significant, observable facts.
Good software developers found that their unholy faith gave them power.
Which led to them bringing in holy zealots with more faith and zeal, but considerably less competence in software.
Which led to a race to be the most holy.
A race that in the end they will lose.
They gained an advantage over their fellow techies at the expense of a giving non techies an advantage over techies.
A race to the bottom ensues,
Darn it, Jim. That’s about as much reality as I can take in one week.
I shall need a while to digest this. Meanwhile, accept my sincere thanks for the indisputably sound advice.
Most disturbing. I think that you have just described Steve Langasek, whom I have known for the better part of two decades, with astonishing precision, despite (as far as I know) your never having met the man. I like and admire Steve and dislike to see him caught up in this.
@Debian Dev
This is why archetypes are valuable. This is similar to how Father Faria helped Edmund Dantes without ever having met any of the people Dantes talked about. You just saw a demonstration of priestly power.
I like and admire
Ashoka the GreatConstantine the Great$DEFECTING_LEADER and dislike to see him caught up in this. 🙂@suones: acknowledged, thanks.
I still like and admire Steve. It’s harder to say otherwise when one actually knows him. He’s a friend, and has behaved as a friend should over many years.
If that puts me in the wrong, then maybe I’ll figure out how to get right again someday.
You are his good friend. Perhaps he is your good friend. I would not know.
But the ideology to which he subscribes is a pile of rationales for double crossing friends and kin in the name of strangers he has never met who live in places he could not find on the map. Perhaps it would be out of character for him to apply those rationales in practice.
Hilarious!
Another version:
The story of every Brahminical revolution ever, recapitulated ad infinitum.
Mark Zuckerberg: “Right now I’m thinking of George Floyd, his family and those who knew him. I hope this verdict brings some measure of comfort to them, and to everyone who can’t help but see themselves in his story. We stand in solidarity with you, knowing that this is part of a bigger struggle against racism and injustice.”
How will the JBIDF (Jeff Bezos Internet Defense Force) defend this? The Cathedral made him do it?
Meanwhile Jack (definitely evil according to the JBIDF) says nothing about it, defends Bitcoin against claims it causes global warming and terrorism, criticizes Biden for indefinitely keeping troops in Afghanistan. The Cathedral gives him a longer leash? Must be that posting about George Floyd is Zuckerberg’s punishment for being too BASED. Jack is such a good Cathedral agent that he gets a longer leash.
On RMS:
I have no idea how he is as an administrator, but point out what the FSF has done over the past decade… pretty much nothing. Still, it garners sufficient donations to support a few grifters. It is an established cathedral of “free software”. I don’t care if RMS is involved or not; that’s the business of the FSF.
I have met RMS, and some years ago corresponded with him for a while.
He’s an avowed Marxist who believes in redistribution of wealth (there are various statements about this on his personal website). His concept of “free software” is not “everyone should have freedom” but rather a way of forcing everyone to share their source code with HIM. Witness how the GPL has moved from reasonable “share and share alike” to v3’s “we’re gonna force you to behave as we wish”.
Marx: You have stuff. I want it. Give me your stuff.
RMS: You have code. I want it. Give me your code.
The concept of sharing source considerably predates his declaration and the GPL. He may have popularized it, but he didn’t invent the concept. But he sure likes to take credit, and tries to get everyone to prefix their work’s name with GNU/ so no one will ever forget.
I think he is deliberately unkempt and obnoxious as a way of claiming his space, and forcing everyone else to back away; a form of low-key bullying. I’ve known other people who (mostly unconsciously) use this technique. It also gets him more attention than he deserves; witness the foot-eating incident, IMO not “socially inept” but “designed to shock”.
I think his “return” to the FSF was driven mainly by the fact that it provides a painless income for a grifter who has never held a real job, another parallel to Marx. Also, it gives them a well-known public face that does better at attracting financial support than not having him at all, and fading into forgotten obscurity.
So, no, I don’t have a lot of respect for RMS. He’s probably done more harm than good. But what he and the FSF do with each other is their business. Donate to ’em or not, as you like.
RMS sucks.
But his priesting is not progressive priesting, and it promotes good software.
By your definition all software developers are “grifers,” since you completely discount the tremendous amount of paid work he put into ITS EMACS that turned a modest foundation into a fantastic and well documented programmers editor that inspired many clones, and a very significant amount of work in the development of the Lisp Machine, one of the core handful of developers, and of the fewer who documented it (a tremendous advantage it had over Maclisp). Those are only the two biggest things he did before starting the GNU project.
He’s also a terrible grifter of the FSF, looking at its 2018 990 none of the officers or directors are compensated except for the Executive Director and the “Clerk/Deputy Director.” Also states he puts 40 hours/week into the organization, but he has pretty modest tastes and life style and of course is grifting food and other things. Skimming the rest of it gives no insight into how it’s spending its money beside people, but there’s none of the telltales that betray a scam.
He’s a terrible administrator of the GNU project, Hurd the doomed but irrelevant kernel project, and especially GCC and Gnu Emacs, and his starting the latter from code stolen from James Gosling could have strangled it all in its crib. And you’re correct about his “designed to shock” behavior, he knows what he’s doing, and which audiences will put up with what misbehavior. But your complete dismissal of his real world accomplishments measured in lines of code doing useful things is not going to help convince anyone that your take on his other issues is correct or useful.
Jim also has a good point about his priesting that has an actual impact, although I partly disagree that it promotes good software, his vision of software freedom has resulted in the deliberate crippling of GCC and Gnu Emacs, and I’m sure plenty of other less visible and important projects.
How so?
How are they crippled?
GCC avoids internal stable APIs to make it harder for someone to create a closed back end. This came to a head WRT extracting complete ASTs for Gnu Emacs and other editors and IDEs, some of which have switched to deliberately modular LLVM. Stallman at last count was doing his best to keep Gnu Emacs from doing this with LLVM. Search on gcc ast emacs, that found this LWN.net article which appears to accurately report many of the issues as of six years ago.
This has a whiff of what helps maintain the Linux semi-monopoly: no fixed ABI for device drivers, so no one can grab them like the NetBSD rump kernel and make their own OS. Which is very costly for users who experience driver rot when mass updates fail, something I’ve personally experienced several times over the last decade and a half.
It’s hard enough to maintain a stable *external* interface to a piece of software; creating and preserving internal API walls is a much bigger pain the ass that offers no benefit to 99% of users. Use the code as it is or fork it and do what thou wilt.
So you see no benefits to modular software? Good to know if I was planning on hiring or working with you.
In case there was any lack of clarity, Stallman’s long term strategy of gimping attempts to create proprietary GCC back ends was taken to the extreme of not allowing an external stable API to get full AST information, which is considered to be table stakes for a lot of modern software development tooling today, and something needed by a lot more than “1%” of the users of GCC and Gnu Emacs. I also wonder if this would be a particularly difficult API to maintain.
There’s a real concern Gnu Emacs and its ecosystem will fall out of favor because of this and become less viable. That nearly all the modern action with FOSS compilers is with LLVM, which does not maintain stable internal APIs adds credibility to this concern. And at this point, GCC’s viability very possibly has more to do with extension lock in like with the Linux kernel, something that I understand is being addressed by Clang, and the limited number of LLVM’s back ends.
CLang-LLVM has a great many advantages. Its basic architecture is better, an external api providing full AST being only one of them.
It, rather than gcc, follows the unix principle of tools that do only one thing and do it well, (modular architecture) and when you want one big tool that does a bunch of them well, you use a tool that integrates the smaller tools.
But I am not using it, because all my libraries use Visual Studio on windows, and the gnu tools environment on linux.
I assume there is a reason why good libraries do this. One obvious factor on windows is that visual studio is simply by far the best environment for coding and debugging. Debugging gcc generated code sucks, so I always debug in windows. LLVM debugging is, I am told, better than gcc debugging, but I would not know.
I can see the world is moving from gcc to Clang-LLVM. But my libraries have not, and I am comfortable in the familiar environment.
Typically for windows, visual studio is unscriptable. There is a scripting solution for it,
devenv, but it is broken and buggy.However, Visual Studio is built on top of the excellent
msbuildtool, which ismakeon steroids, andmsbuildis scriptable and runs on scripts, and from time to time I find myself editing those scripts directly, rather than trying to modify them through the Visual Studio interface.Cmake is a tool to generate
makescripts, as Visual Studio is a tool to generate and editmsbuildscripts, but I can never get it to work, and the makefiles it generates are amazingly incomprehensible, while themsbuildscripts that Visual Studio generates and edits are comparatively clean and straightforward.Creating makefiles with Gnu Auto Tools gives me far less grief than creating makefiles with Cmake (though considerably more grief than creating vcxproj files (msbuild scripts) with Visual Studio.
Emacs has a long way to go to catch up with Visual Studio.
And that paid work was how long ago, 20+ years? Not discounting what he’d done in the past; the question is whether he’s worth supporting in the present. Someone elsewhere pointed out that RMS last contributed code in 2003. (I have no idea if this is accurate, but the writer had checked, so…) Referring to him as a priest rather than a developer is, IMO, pretty accurate.
And yes, I do wonder how the FSF manages to spend all that money, but that’s hardly unique for any nonprofit (or however it’s incorporated). “Promoting $target” can mean anything.
“By your definition all software developers are “grifers,”
I don’t know how you got that; the devs I know write good software and get paid for it, or maintain useful free projects and get respect for it. They don’t expect to get paid or respected for “promoting” their personal philosophy in the hope and intent that it will be enforced upon one and all.
You can’t change the goalposts, you said:
Instead of admitting your gross ignorance about the subject or perhaps how your hatred of him blinded you, you double down. And you still don’t accept that RMS was once a conventionally paid software developer (as in cash), for you can’t see how labeling someone who was that a grifter makes all other software developers who get conventionally paid grifters.
Tell us why we should pay attention to a single word you say going forward, “including ‘and’ and ‘the’?”
Not entirely unrelated, a group of Paper or non-Americans at the University of Minnesota (UMN) has been deliberately introducing security bugs into the Linux kernel for a paper. Here’s a general article on this and the Hacker News discussion of it.
Hah! I saw that, thought that Linux code-reviews must be going downhill after Linus cucked out, and here’s the proof — you can literally propose bugs to be added to Linux, and be accepted, if you’re the right category of person.
This is the time that Linux has been proven to have jumped the shark.
I think this tweet makes a good point, or, at least, the point I think it’s making seems good:
https://twitter.com/EvanPlatinum/status/1383585137527431171?s=20
Namely, we’ve gotten to the point where members of congress, albeit ones most of their party disavow, are talking about the “Anglo-Saxon” origins of US political traditions. Of course, this is technically more accurate in terms of specificity than saying “European” (as it suggests the Common Law rather than e.g. Napoleonic Code), but it also seems closer to saying “the white/European origins of US traditions” than I can recall it being acceptable to say in my lifetime, or at least the past 20 years.
The 19th and, to a lesser extent, 20th c. are full of examples of American whites talking about whites qua whites, albeit generally always on the losing side, in the long run. Now it’s become something everyone (moderately educated) sort of knows but you’re literally not allowed to mention. US history basically started in 1940 or, at the earliest 1860 (1619 is just a number to trot out to justify US history being all about slavery but doesn’t seem to encourage anyone to look into colonial history otherwise) and anglos and whites are just part of the beautiful tapestry blah blah.
It seems like Jim and many here speak about wignat-ism with disdain, at least, perhaps of a particular type of wignat, but isn’t it a good thing if we’re getting closer to actually being able to talk about white people (as something other than a slur) again, especially given that we are being attacked qua white people? I’m not sure wignatism or Jared Taylor is the way to go, but it feels like the fig leaf covering up “white people qua white people have interests and history and culture and are not just a media punching bag” is getting smaller and smaller. That said, I’m not sure MRA has been particularly helpful at helping men in this regard, so maybe any “America is a normatively white” paleocon-ish movement wouldn’t either?
Talking about America’s Anglo Saxon origins is more the truth than the wignat view of monolithic non jewish whites who should live in some kind of socialist utopia that is totally better than the Marxist utopia and that there socialism totally has nothing to do with the socialism of that Jew Marx…
Wignattism is an enemy socialist fed meme, Anglo Saxon civilization is a triumphant reactionary and redpilled meme. So talking about Anglo Saxons is better than talking about huwhites.
I don’t really get it. Jared Taylor seems to me to be basically Pat Buchannan if he were more open and aggressive about pushing the “huwhite” angle. They don’t seem utopian to me, but about keeping the US “normatively” white, e.g. maybe >80% white in terms of population and adhering to some blend of European customs and institutions (after all, we have Louisiana, too, and I studied Latin and Greek in high school, as did my father).
Ann Coulter sometimes emphasizes the overwhelmingly British/Dutch nature of the early US, which is fine and good, I guess, but like I said, white people and Europeans (including in Europe) are under attack qua white people right now, not qua Anglo-Saxons or qua Italians. Isn’t balkanizing white racial identity, especially in the US where it has become more of a melting pot, playing into the hands of those who insist “there’s no such thing as white culture” (only Irish, Italian, French, German culture)?
Insofar as it’s utopian, I’m not interested in defending wignatism the label; I’m more talking about the general advisability of dropping dog whistles for white people interests and just talking about white people.
>Ann Coulter sometimes emphasizes the overwhelmingly British/Dutch nature of the early US, which is fine and good, I guess, but like I said, white people and Europeans (including in Europe) are under attack qua white people right now, not qua Anglo-Saxons or qua Italians. Isn’t balkanizing white racial identity, especially in the US where it has become more of a melting pot, playing into the hands of those who insist “there’s no such thing as white culture” (only Irish, Italian, French, German culture)?
There is no such thing as white culture. And there’s no such thing as black culture. Races have characteristics, not cultures. Ethnic groups and religious groups have cultures.
>I’m more talking about the general advisability of dropping dog whistles for white people interests and just talking about white people.
The dog whistles people should be dropping is about their children being put into box cars and sent to death camps for the color of their skin. The woke religion is going to murder all their children and them if they continue to follow it. I think that’s our strongest message given how quickly people dropped CRT when Trump banned it.
I think there is such a thing as white American culture, as there is such a thing as African American culture. We see how well African American culture exports to Africans in other parts of the world, even if their ancestors weren’t from the same part of sub-Saharan Africa as the ancestors of the US blacks. It’s an identity, a culture by people who look like me, and it’s cool.
White American culture is also a distinctive culture, imo, as Western Civilization is also a thing (culturally), and not just whatever people with certain racial characteristics happened to come up with.
Or, if one insists on the point that races have characteristics, not cultures (technically true, I’d say, but not directionally), why wouldn’t wignatism or “Europe for the Europeans” be a good rallying cry for creating a nation of people of compatible characteristics?
No one notices, cares, or makes a statement when a white historical figure in the movies is played by someone with a slightly different ancestral white admixture than the historical figure would have had; when you have a black person playing Mary Queen of Scotts, it’s obviously a cultural attack.
White culture just means European culture, which broadly does exist in the same way a broad African culture, Asian culture, and Native American culture does exist.
>No one notices, cares, or makes a statement when a white historical figure in the movies is played by someone with a slightly different ancestral white admixture than the historical figure would have had; when you have a black person playing Mary Queen of Scotts, it’s obviously a cultural attack.
No it’s a racial attack designed to lie about history. Getting someone to play Mary Queen of Scotts who looks a lot like Marry queen of scots is ideal. Getting someone who doesn’t even remotely resemble her in order to create a false history is propaganda.
>Or, if one insists on the point that races have characteristics, not cultures (technically true, I’d say, but not directionally), why wouldn’t wignatism or “Europe for the Europeans” be a good rallying cry for creating a nation of people of compatible characteristics?
Are Slavs compatible with Anglo Saxons? Given that both groups do better when not living close together, I’d say they’re probably better off not living in the same country or at least staying mostly in their own communities. Slavs are a major pain in the neck for Anglo Saxons in the UK. They’re less of a problem than people from other races because they share racial chrematistics with Anglo Saxons, but having them in the UK is less than ideal.
Nobody who sees a black woman playing Mary Queen of Scots is going to think Mary Queen of Scots was black. This is unaesthetic because blatantly historically inaccurate, and it functions as an ideological gang sign for the progressives who control media, but it can’t work as propaganda because it’s completely unbelievable to anyone who’s not a complete idiot. (Besides, trying to tell people this is both too nakedly malicious for progressives, who mostly just motivated-reason their way into believing an insane set of ideas are good, plus it would conflict with their narrative of ‘historical societies were awful because they were Racist’.)
How so? AFAIK the significant proportion of Slavs in the US haven’t been noticeably very bad for it. (My first impulse was to say that this conflicts with my experience as a Slav who appreciates Anglo-American culture, but of course it’s quite possible that you’re right about most Slavs and I’m just on the tail of the bell curve for whatever trait you’re talking about.)
Slavs are less compatible with anglos than other teutons… but more compatible than arabs or seakips, at any rate.
Old Church Slavonic is vrry close to Sanskrit…
“Nobody who sees a black woman playing Mary Queen of Scots is going to think Mary Queen of Scots was black. ”
Nobody over the age of X where X is a constantly rising number.
The UK is aggressively gaslighting people that the current racial breakdown is timeless, not just implicitly in fiction but also with “scientific” claims.
Taylor isn’t a wignat hes one of the few who says white a lot that doesn’t mix it with some mix of borderline natsoc ideas.
Yeah, I’m more interested in the value of talking about huwhites qua huwhites a lot, as Taylor does, than in particular manifestations of that. If wignatism means not just talking about huwhites but a particular natsoc utopian vision, I’m against that. But what do we call the Jared Taylors then? He calls himself a “white advocate.” Is “white advocacy” good?
Wignat means using white identity (instead of Christianity) as the sole means of cohesion like the niggers do.
>Is “white advocacy” good?
Not if those whites include the woke demon worshipers.
I watched a video of a guy being attacked by a BLM group blocking the street to his house. White cops showed up and arrested him instead of the niggers assaulting him.
https://patriots.win/p/12iN7NJSOx/blm-group-has-assaulted-someone-/c/
You can’t advocate on the basis of the white race when a good chunk of the white race wants you dead for being white.
We need religious cohesion and advocacy. Trump tried civic religion and tried to bring Christianity back form the dead. Jimanism is a good idea but we’d need to quickly take over existing churches with it or we’d need a Elon Musk level prophet to bring it to the masses.
Not my plan.
My plan is that when Caesar takes power, we tell him that the existing state religion is inherently and intransigently hostile, because the fundamental founding heresy was priests on top. “You, Caesar, need a state religion that endorses warriors on top. You will never be able to co-exist with the existing state religion.”
We then recap Constantine. Constantine then recaps Constantinople.
Jim, you’re playing the well proven long game like Christianity and Confucianism did. It’s a good plan and it’s probably the most likely to result in good long term outcomes of our current options. My idea of bringing it to the masses by taking over churches certainty won’t work. It was more of an illustration that we need a religion if we we’re going to engage in holy war.
But the day where Jimaism is adopted by a ruler is likely very far away. In the interim we need a underground religion or a Jimin school of thought hopefully complete with a prophet like Saul of Tarais to push it forward into something tangible that we can use to live better lives as a community now. What good is a religion that’s not currently a functioning as religious community? It’s like the design of a program that’s never been coded.
Constantine didn’t adopt Christianity until he saw the proof of concept that Christianity worked for people.
You may want to consider finding a prophet to make Jimaism an actual religious community at least writing a book so that when a prophet arises he can build a religion out it.
I go to my Latin Mass church on Sundays and see maskless families with 4 or 5 young children receiving communion on the tongue, visual proof that a traditional and ancient form of Christianity is working for people.
This is not a good plan. It is a less-bad plan, but not a good one. Even for Constantine himself, it was more a case of cutting his losses rather than winning. A good plan would be one that would restore the throne to a King of Rome, and purge the filth at its source. At least, it was Il Duce’s plan. It didn’t work out(due to weakness in Il Duce), but it was a good plan.
@Ace
The Holy StarProphet Elon only has to prove that Starship can work… so others can copy.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/04/chinas-state-rocket-company-unveils-rendering-of-a-starship-look-alike/
Starship sn15 had a very nice static test fire, where they obviously used a lot more power than in previous test fires.
Previous static test fires were too tightly constrained, perhaps by likelihood of destruction of the launch pad, to properly test the engines.
One of Trump’s final acts, well at least Jim Bridenstine’s final acts dome by his proxies was fully funding startship development via the moon lander contract. Biden’s bozos are trying to find a way to steal that money from Elon but I think they’re going to fail.
Elon Musk promises to put a starship on the moon for small change compared to what NASA blows every year. If they take that away, it is pretty obvious that they don’t want us in space.
Of course, Elon Musk is notorious for overpromising, but his current cash burn rate seems to be about one and half billion a year, and his current development rate should get starship on the moon on schedule, though knowing Musk, there will likely be a schedule slip.
Market valuation, forty four billion, burn rate something like one and a half billion per year, seems SpaceX is in a good place to be. But he needs to land a starship successfully real soon now.
Starlink is currently dependent on the earth internet, with satellites transmitting back the signals they receive to earth, rather than to each other. Musk is short of space to space connections, but expects that all satellites launched in 2022 will have space to space capabilities. But it will be a while before we have a space based internet independent of the earth internet.
What no one seems to have noticed that is that if you own a space based internet, you own a lot of political power. You can decide to let through what the earth internet decides to censor or to intercept. You have metadata about what people are doing, and existing governments do not, unless you give it to them.
If Musk comes to own an internet in space, he has tremendous political leverage.
The moon contract is 2 years of NASA funding of SpaceX which should be enough time to get a working starship, assuming it’s possible to make the everything Elon is promising work.
From a money standpoint a moon starship makes Artemis and SLS pointless and the people looting the public till on those programs don’t want that.
From the way leftists react to Elon these days it’s pretty clear that A) they don’t want to go to space and B) they’re beginning to realize that he’s a real threat as a religious leader. They’re going to try and ritually hamulate him on SLN in a couple of weeks in order to destroy him as they destroy Saria Palin. We’ll see how the Star Prophet deals with that.
Power of the lamestream media is in decline. Observe the Oscars falling off a cliff. I doubt if they can damage Musk as effectively as they damaged Sarah Palin.
Sarah Palin would say something smart or well informed, and the mainstream media would say “Hah hah”, thus reassuring everyone too stupid or ignorant to understand it. But, since Musk is a literal rocket scientist, this tactic is likely to be inherently ineffective. Let us see if they try a different tactic on Musk.
The Star Prophet is working real miracles. Which makes him hard to debunk, even though he notoriously issues plenty of bunkum.
Musk is going into the lions den. Pretty sure it is a trap. On the other hand, he is a lot smarter than they are, I think that he is likely to turn the tables on them.
What I would do if I was in his shoes is give them a script containing an opening monologue, then open with a substantially different opening monologue.
We all thought the same about Trump and look what happened. Smart don’t count for much against a gaggle of Jews.
@suones
But miracles and memetic sovereignty does count (Trump lacked both qualities).
And Prophet Muhammad did pretty well against a gaggle of Jews. Let’s see if Prophet Elon Musk can do too.
https://gab.com/r7booster/posts/106137787195196505
https://islamichistory.org/the-hijra/
If ‘wignattism’ is a fed creation, then call it fednatism, and sit on people who erroneously call it ‘wignatism’.
The term ‘wignatism’ cuts sideways at best.
I like fednatism because its an even better linguistic killshot but we are not punching right when we call it wignattism and its followers wignats we are (as SJWs say, but unlike them we have no problem with it) punching down.
We are far far to the right of the socialist wignats/fednats.
It’s not about who it targets – well it is about who it targets but not in the way you are thinking. It’s about rhetorical distance, rhetorical overlap, rhetorical virtue, in terminology.
This ground has been tread before. You may have a special personal definition of the phrase ‘wignat’ that is couched three parentheticals deep in modulation, such that you understand it to be something that does not work perfidy; but such does not prevail in discourse. People see ‘wignatism’, and are immediately called to an association with ‘white nationalism’.
Someone can say ‘its totally different guys’, but then one also see some of those same others unironically repeating other enemy memes like ‘low iq overweight stormniggers’; one would then have to forgiven for reading bad intentions in between the lines.
There is an inescapable lexic homonymity between the terms. Using one as a snarl word is the psychological equivalent of shoveling shit into the river upstream of the other.
A good rhetorician does not kick the ball in directions that bend closer towards his own goal. A good snarlword for labeling someone defecting on a group orthodoxy should be lexically non-interchangeable with words for that group. A paleocon calling a cuckservative a ‘cuckservative’ is helpful to him; him calling a cuckservative a ‘conservatard’ is sawing off the branch he himself sits on. Cuckservative can’t be confused as a synonym for conservative in the way that ‘conservatard’ can; that is one reason why it was such an effective insult. Someone saying ‘cuckservative’ is saying ‘failure of a conservative’; someone saying ‘conservatard’ is saying ‘dumb conservatives’. On the other hand, not only does wignat sound like a rhyme with white nationalist, it even looks like a more convenient contraction or short form of it – perfect for proliferating in a discourse.
The term ‘wigger’ itself is gay, for that matter, and no good perennialist should use it unironically. Someone using the term ‘wigger’ is saying ‘it doesnt matter what act you put on white boy, you will always be low status, on account of your whiteness, and aping customs of officially unofficially high status demographics wont change that’. If you are using the term in a way different from this way, you are using it wrong, and people won’t understand you, they will understand you as using it that way, and supporting its use in that way.
I think you are thinking about this in an overcomplicated way.
Fednats/wignats help our enemies, are easily manipulated by our enemies, and part of their ideology is the ideology of our enemies and they are overwhelmingly too stupid to be of much use.
Fuck em. I don’t want to have to spend 10 days with each of them convincing them I’m not a jew and do not work with jews, and fail anyway.
This is a typical example of wignat/fednat “thought”.
http://www.renegadetribune.com/jims-blog-bastion-pedophilia-normalization/
If it sounds that way it’s because of talking past each other.
Im not talking about fed stalking horses, im talking about the word you were previously using for those people.. which is an infelicitous cleavage for referring to those people.
The defining characteristic of wignat/white nationalism is the rejection of Christianity as the faith and binding element for the right. That is the fundamental disagreement between Jimian reaction and white nationalism. We call them wig nats because they worship and are obsessed with race using whiteness as the single and only cohesive element in the same way the nig nogs use blackness. If you fail to mention Christianity in your future vision of a reactionary state, you might be a wignat.
Wignat is an enemy term. By using that language, you are attacking them from the left.
No enemies to the right.
Calling them evil racist fascist is attacking them from the left.
Wignat was a term that originated on the right to attack them… lets not one way ingroup these people.
Are pagans to our right?
There are genuinely right wing pagans and not all wignats larp as Wotanists. People who larp as Wotanist tend to be either stupid or just kind of absurd…
BAP is a genuinely right wing guy who (I won’t say he is pagan) but he is also not Christian. Despite occasional Third Reich apologetics and willingness to discuss the jews he is no wignat either and in fact has mocked them on occasion.
The thing that puts wignats on our left is that ultimately their vision is socialist and utopian this makes them a heretical kind of leftists and not on the right at all. The right fundamentally rejects all utopian thinking in this life, and rejects any idea that a perfect new man can be achieved. Its not that wignats aren’t Christian, its that they reject anything like the Christian idea of the fall (which BAP does accept something similar even if he is not a Christian).
I won’t call BAP a wignat but what he proposes as a solution sounds awfully like national socialism which is to our left so I have no problem attacking him from the right.
BAP is natcap as are we. He is prone to make some apologetics for the 3rd Reich though not in the fawning way true wignats do (I suspect he was of Balt German decent he has hinted at this before even if he has a Russian accent) but he won’t make apologetics for the socialist aspects of their ideology.
BAP’s main difference is he at least halfway thinks the memetic and to some extent genetic deadwood is so bad that we in fact NEED another Bronze Age Collapse where much of the population dies and the whole current social order is overturned in order to put human civilization on a long term healthy path again.
Calling fednats wignats confuses the issue. Fednatism is artifical astroturf, created by feds, pushed by feds, and shills handled by feds, and thus one rightly calls it fednatism.
For those who want to make a huge distinction between fednats and wignats… to me the former group are demons and the latter are merely possessed but all serve hell.
And calling both fednats is the right way to drive a wedge.
Certainly.
PS: inb4 “Old Testament,” “Old Testament” is 100% worship of an Old God (of Moses and Abraham) who is short tempered, vindictive, etc. just the same as all the other Old Gods. Yahweh doesn’t forget or forgive those who fuck with him. Rolling back Christianity to just the “Christ the Logos” era is un-doing a millenium’s worth of “New Testament” exegesis, which is the mother of Progressivism. Vox Day attempts to square this circle by calling this “based” version “Christianity” while dubbing the actual Christianity (that has billions of followers, Pope, etc) as “Churchianity” instead. Jim at least has a consistent point to which to undo the spiral to, but it is still like hoping to stop a waterfall only midway.
There are few real pagans today other than a few African nigger witch doctors (and some in Mexico) who unironically practice human sacrifice rituals and unironically worship demons (that they believe in very literally).
Wotanists fednats/wignats are larpers who do not believe even a little.
I do not think they are on our right.
No that link is not to a Nazi, but to a fed.
Namefag, gives true name and bank account, on that web page, therefore a fed. If an actual Nazi, would not cheerfully inform everyone, including the authorities, of his bank account. Almost certainly on the Soros payroll, because he is running a script run by “Nazis” who are never capable of acknowledging the activities of Soros and Victoria Nuland.
can’t believe I missed that the first time I looked at that site.
Then we should not use language that puts us on their left.
Anglo-Saxon is a more accurate statement than white when it comes to American greatness and history and I think it’s a good term to use. However it’s a poor identity because almost no one identifies as Anglo-Saxon anymore. We are in a holy war and we need a identity based on religion rather than ethnic origin to win it. I’m living in an area where half the whites who are Anglo Saxon decent would gladly murder the half of the whites who are also of Anglo Saxon decent in the name of their woke demons.
half the whites who are Anglo Saxon decent would gladly murder the half of the whites who are also of Anglo Saxon decent in the name of their woke demons.
Few Anglo-Saxons around here, at least in my circles; but among our Italians it’s the same damn thing.
In the northeast the wops tend to be the most right wing group of whites.
Some of ’em.
The America First Caucus was an amazing white pill until MTG immediately folded under pressure like a cheap suit. This is why you don’t have women lead things.
I actually think her female sex is analogous to the issue brought up in the tweet (talking about “anglo-saxon” because you can’t say “white”); as a lot of Republicans like the idea of voting for a Ben Carson to show how not-racist they are, there seems to be phenomenon whereby women can say some things men can’t say, or at least, get farther before they encounter pushback. This is a symptom of the larger “can’t take your own side” problem.
Good point.
I don’t think this sort of thing indicates that wignatism, or any sort of racial solidarity among white people in general, is going to gain much popularity. I’m not sure about MTG herself, but I think most of the rightists who support this sort of thing are more concerned with Anglo-Saxon culture — common law, freedom of expression, individualism, protestant Christianity, &c. — than Anglo-Saxon genes or physiognomy. Even someone who thinks HBD is complete bullshit can follow the mainstream conservatives in believing that Anglo-Saxon political culture is good, everyone in America of every race should adopt it, & the importation of lots of unassimilated immigrants can weaken it & so is a bad idea.
As for future strategies, I think outright wignatism is about the worst idea possible because it fits perfectly with the left’s stereotypes of the right being Nazis & is the best way to get conservatives to agree with them that you are evil instead of actually considering your ideas. I’m not sure what would work, or even that acting now is better than adopting Moldbug’s preferred strategy of avoiding political action altogether until an opportunity to overthrow the Cathedral entirely arises, but at the very least you should not purposely activate the memetic antibodies that correspond to American society’s archetype of evil. The ability to talk sympathetically about the interests of white people as such, where those are relevant, would be useful in some cases, but I’m not sure that’s possible now without looking like a Nazi to most of the country (consider that even the “Anglo-Saxon” thing, though most plausibly interpreted as a reference to culture & probably intended as one, was still denounced as a “racist dogwhistle” by the Republican Party leaders).
You sound like 5%er btw
>counter signaling trump
>telling people not to vote
>triggered by wignat accusation
>accusing me of “irony”
>possibly triggered by Nick Fuentes, not confirmed yet
Who is this directed towards?
bilge_pump
> Trump was a scam. Ive never voted in an election because i think democracy is retarded. Any vote you make can be erased by Shaniqua, if her owners decide its what should happen. Trump was an entertainment president, and most of his promises were fake and gay. You must be suffering from hopium withdrawals to say all that crap about white people.
> Its my opinion that linker is a glower or some other subversive type. Every comment he makes contains some corrosive irony. Nothing he says is constructive or hepful, as far as I’ve seen. Basucally he seems like he’s here to talk shite.
> Its my opinion that linker is a glower or some other subversive type. Every comment he makes contains some corrosive irony. Nothing he says is constructive or hepful, as far as I’ve seen. Basucally he seems like he’s here to talk shite.
He’s not wrong.
Take the shill test.
https://blog.reaction.la/war/now-we-are-in-trouble/#comment-2693539
bilge_pump is correct about you.
Only a retard would come on this board spread a bunch of glowing shill crap about nick puntays and demand that someone who’s already passed the Women Question test take it again.
Bilge pump has wignatish ideas… not something I have a favorable opinion of but linker seems slightly suspicious as well but I merely suspect he is a purple pilled follower of Teddy Spaghetti.
Linker seems to think Bezos has pursued left wing actions of his own free will… my view and I think the view of most here is that he isn’t making the decisions and furthermore Amazon only started doing leftist things very very late and he seemed to get very upset about our view that Bezos probably isn’t much of a leftist… whether if one of us became king or not Bezos was to be shot would have to be determined after a trial and unlike the trial of Dorsey or Brin (which would almost certainly find them guilty and condemn them to death for giving aid and comfort of the enemy of their own free will) or Zuckerberg (who would most likely be acquitted because he initially resisted until a lot of bad things happened to him) Bezos trial could potentially go either way.
Linker has promoted a personality (Fuentes) we find very suspicious…
None of this proves he is a shill. Some of what he speaks is true he may merely be purple pilled. He should answer a redpill on women test of course but I’m not convinced on him either way right now. Of course if he worships the “supreme dark lord” he’ll fail the redpill on woman test as well but we want people here who value truth over any cult leanings they may have.
I’d have Bezos executed just for banning books from a bookstore. Knowledge is sacrosanct. But he’d clearly sell whatever the public wanted if the left wasn’t twisting his nuts.
I get the impression Linker might be able to pass red pill test. Though it would be funny if he failed it after tossing it at me. That doesn’t change the fact he’s just sowing bullshit and division. I’m not sure what he is.
“I’d have Bezos executed just for banning books from a bookstore. Knowledge is sacrosanct.”
He didn’t make the decision is my point… not on his own initiative and not without very clear knowledge of ever escalating consequences to himself which would have ultimately ended with him being removed from Amazon (one way or another) and being replaced with someone willing to play ball…
Zuckerberg got very close to being ousted so Bezos knows what would have happened.
Now I suspect that Bezos did some things to amplify the covid hoax (which immensely benefited Amazon) on his own initiative and without any sort of coercion, if he should be shot for anything its for that.
I was criticizing Vox gay in a previous comments section, saying he is a radical feminist when it comes to women, abuses his own dread ilk, and is a serial liar. I respect him though. He is a leader with many loyal followers and he seems to be making a positive difference for us with all the books and comics he puts out and collaborating with Owen Benjamin (also fucked up, but that’s another story) to bankrupt Patreon. I don’t see those guys as enemies, more like berserker allies who should be kept at arm’s length.
I do not think Roosh is making a positive difference for us since he is just pushing crypto-feminism and crypto-marxism, and I don’t see him doing anything good.
Spencer, I believe we can all agree is an enemy shill since he promotes racist socialism, sucks off democrats, promotes the retarded corona hoax, promotes cliques of proven federal agents on twitter, etc.
I will not elaborate on the Bezos thing since we came to an impasse already.
I think Ace is the one promoting discord here, although I have done my fair share of shit talking and arguing.
The reactionary red pill answer to that shill test is:
[C] No, and in fact, there should be no AoC. Consent is opaque to a woman. Women seek to score alpha male dick from a disturbingly young age, and are apt to succeed when they grow boobs. The solution is young marriage for women, shotgun marriage, and in some cases marriage-by-abduction.
White people are losing because we are not coordinated. To be coordinated we need leaders. One of the most subversive behaviors I can think of is disrespecting, undercutting, and sowing division under a leader. Trump is or was indisputably our leader and we have to respect him. Leadership is based on leadership effectiveness, not on smartness and ideological purity. Trump is Nick’s leader and Nick is our leader; if he’s not your leader then you are an enemy. Nick said to vote for Trump, so I did.
PS I don’t even think you are smarter or more ideologically pure than Nick.
I don’t follow Nick Fuentes. I don’t consider him our leader. I do not watch or read his stuff. Anyone who has not been banned from twitter should be suspect. Twitter is full of enemy shills passing as alt-right.
When and if he gets banned from Twitter and DLive, I will take a look at him.
He was already banned on DLive. Not quite sure why he hasn’t been banned by Twitter yet, but he is the best political advocacy group we have at the moment. He’s the only one saying, on video showing his real face, anything close to the truth on race and women. He’s only a 22-year old kid though. Has much to learn, if he doesn’t get arrested/killed first.
Twitter is the primary official organizing center for the deep entry enemy shilling operation.
My unverified expectation is that if I bothered to watch Nick Fuentes, I would find the well known but seldom speakable truth carrying a payload of lies.
I don’t trust Fuentes because
1) I don’t trust anyone who ties their politics to Roman Catholicism too much. The Catholic Church is an implacable eternal enemy of Anglo Saxon civilization and anyone who identifies with it too much is suspect on that issue alone. The Know Nothing party did nothing wrong.
2) Although Fuentes rightly denounces wignats he also virtue signals like he cares about muh Israel and being fair to the Palestinians… highly suspect.
3) Got his crowd to boo Don Jr…
Palestinians attacked Christians in Lebanon and Syria, and they would attack us if we were closer. Israel is merely the closest.
They attacked other Arab Muslims in Jordan until the predominantly Beduin Arab royal Jordan army crushed them with way more brutality than the Israelis have ever been willing to use.
They seemed to have learned after that…
Just transplant an Aryan army there: suddenly the Royal Jordanian Army will unite with their “enemy” Palestinians to kill the “hated enemy foreigner” while being bankrolled by Israel and international (i.e. American) Jewry.
Don’t take evidence of intra-Semitic fighting as able to drive a wedge through them. They’ll unite against us.
Arab tribes attacked other Arab tribes in Arab lands. Which is business as usual since the Bronze Age. No need to read unnecessary theological significance into it.
Fuentes is based. I detect no lies.
Reading his rationalWiki(AKA Commie wiki) entry he seems pretty based. However, why hasn’t twitter banned him?
Reading his posts it should be easy to ban him. Reminds me of the people who lead the unite the right rally right into the setup the left created for them. I was never sure if they were feds or not, but they sure acted exactly as the left wanted them to act.
My guess is that the left wants to be able to monitor him instead of pushing him underground. He’s mentioned that before. He regularly complains that he’s banned on everything else (including banks accounts) and under FBI investigation since 1/6 though. He had to build his own streaming service from scratch like Infowars in order to stream. They are petrified of him. Democrats showed him 3 or 4 times during the Stop the Steal rallies. To me is a proxy for our chances of our long term chances. If he gets arrested, we are fucked and time to start planning where to flee to.
To me he is a proxy of our long term chances*
Ugh can’t type.
Democrats showed him 3 or 4 times speaking at the 2nd impeachment trial as an example for insurrection.*
This is his streaming service: https://americafirst.live/
Watch some of his replays and see if yourself.
He passed the red pill on woman questions with flying colors in the Gaetz affair. If he’s an enemy agent, he is the only–and I mean that literally, as in the sole and exclusive example–of a Cathedral tool who can pass the RPW question. Not only that, he did it in defense of a man that the Cathedral hates in direct opposition to a transparent Cathedral op. If he’s a plant, he is in the deepest of deep cover. I don’t think he’s necessarily our leader, more like a lay-preacher exhorting the common man to follow our ways.
Five eastern Oregon counties are going to vote on whether to secede from Oregon and join Idaho.
https://www.amren.com/news/2021/03/greater-idaho-will-be-on-the-ballot-in-5-counties-in-may/
Won’t have any impact legally…
Legality has been dead for some time.
Its more complicated then that though, yes we live in anarcho tyranny but the powers that be can cite constitutional law when they wish as the devil can quote scripture and they will do so in this case and they’ll be right on the letter of the law.
For some considerable time during the death of the Roman Republic, people kept citing constitutional law. Which had considerable psychological impact, though that impact diminished steadily because it had absolutely zero connection to reality. It continued to have psychological impact until Caesar was assassinated, after which its psychologicalimpact was fairly small.
Yes, continues to have psychological impact. But we should not let it impact us. It is a delusion, a dream that is fading as we awaken to the new reality. In the events that unfolded in the collapse of the Republic, those who allowed themselves to be influenced by such delusive considerations died.
But do these men know that, is the question.
If they are going into this with the mind-set of, ‘the law will make this happen’, then nothing will happen.
If they are going in with a mind-set of, ‘we are making this happen, and this is just smokescreen we are blowing up for it’, then something might happen.
Secession while the state is strong is a dumb idea. It’s just asking for the state to declare such people rebels and carpet bombed to death.
Although this is small, I’m starting to think a serious Secession movement while white male warriors are being purged is a good idea. The military will split over it.
I agree. I think a secession movement is one of the only paths to victory for us.
I’ve read the history of hundreds of dying empires. Until the empire is very weak or the forces at your disposal are very strong, revolting or trying to leave is just going to get you killed.
Ok, but the State of Oregon is not an empire with an air force capable of carpetbombing several counties. These guys are not contemplating secession from the USA, but from calling commie whackjobs in Portland and Salem “neighbor”. A simple attempt to remove Proximity from the D+P=W equation, without the huge inconvenience of large scale property exchange and migration. If there’s an amenable way to avoid W, one should at least ask.
GT, I was commenting different subject. Pooch was looking for actual secession from the country to come from it. The state stuff is fine, but pointless as such areas are being flooded with new Dem voters as we speak. An actual core part of the empire leaving before the empire is largely in ruins isn’t going to work.
Pooch was looking for actual secession from the country to come from it.
And that should be the ultimate goal. If that doesn’t work, then mass graves. State/county shuffling is a stopgap, but establishes frame that it’s far easier to redraw a border on paper and write new constitutions, than to have a dozen trails of tears simultaneously crossing the continent.
Agreed that it’s probably too soon for full breakup, but the 20+ state election lawsuit hinted the time may come sooner than expected.
The US empire is very weak. Like the USSR, Balkanization is a possible future in which we carve out a white Christian state from the whole. Orania on steroids.
The USSR didn’t crumbled until it was literally starving and it had lost all it’s external territory in Eastern Europe. The USSR also had a dead a religion. The US has a very large and growing demon worshiping religion who’s core-tenant is kill whity and everything will be prefect. Balkanization in the core parts of the empire isn’t possible right now without giving the woke the opening they need to reign down fire from the skies.
When we start seeing major states like South Korea, Japan, and Germany slipping away, then session becomes possible.
Our best option is the left doing something really stupid with the upcoming AFT gun raids or with the upcoming riots. Thought he coverage of the riots is going to be pretty weak, they’re doing a good job identifying and beating up anyone recording them.
The right’s only real option right now is to promote infighting amongst our enemies and perhaps to develop our own militant sect that engages in activity to deter our rulers from harassing us the way the Hasishim convinced Islamic rulers that it was best to leave them alone…
That’s fair. Although serious secession would immediately force Civil War 2 in the same way it forced immediate Civll War 1. The regime would undoubtedly invade , giving red state leadership legitimate authority to do violence, again. If the military splits along white males for us and diversity for them, we win and take it all. I wouldn’t rule out them nuking the red states off the bat though.
The war will be a holy war with racial characteristics not a race war, we absolutely will not get 100% of white males as leftist white males not the minorities have always been the main problem.
We don’t need all the white males. We just need most of the white males that can competently kill.
we absolutely will not get 100% of white males as leftist white males …have always been the main problem.
Won’t even get close to 100% of rightist white males. Far too many cucks will only give up their Paintjob Theory if you pry it from their cold dead hands. Gonna be an epic shitshow.
Guys like that NC drill sergeant probably can’t be counted on, even after being hand-fed through the race wringer. He actually believed his black neighbors were on his side as they were filming him, and posted that it was all a “misunderstanding”.
@Suones, continuing on the Aryan/Dravidian divide. I believe that there is a distinct racial difference which is observable to this day between the two. I think the main reason why India still preserves this distinction is because of the tight Caste hierarchies, fairly strict restrictions on inter-caste marriage until in the last 100 years or so and so on. If the prog agenda goes through, I think the intermingling of races will make it next to impossible to distinguish between the two.
@others,
Among Indians, Aryans (mainly the Brahmins and Kshatriya castes, but also some Vaisya castes – though there is a fair intermingling of race/caste which makes it impossible to generalize accurately) tend to have fairer skin (wheatish toned skin which does get dark due to sun exposure, but not the chocolate brown dark of the Dravidian). Also Aryan features are much more refined than the typical Dravidian and I think we are closer to European standards of beauty in this regard rather than African standards. Also I’ve noticed that the Dravidians are much more heat-tolerant, resistant to tropical diseases and naturally physically stronger similar to the African race. However, the Dravidian IQ is distinctively lower. I hate the summer heat, and barely can stand the heat of April / May / June. Even though we are both Indians,
I think we can find the distinction much easier to understand than the Westerners here, particularly because they tend to club all brown-skinned people into a single basket of races.
Possibly the Dravidians are hybrids between Elamite invaders and dark locals. Upper Caste Dravidians could be maternally Aryan.
Entire crypto market selling off. Jim is this in response to incoming regulation?
I don’t get excited about the daily news, and do not try to find reasons for the latest change.
I did not bother to think about this until you asked, and my two cents on the issue is not worth two cents.
I conjecture a lot of people, myself among them, expected swift dramatic crisis after the Deep State got its puppets in – that the Deep State would rapidly lose control, so purchased crypto for that reason. And now everthing is going along quietly, and when one faction tries to start a war with Russia, the Deep State firmly sits on them, squashes them, and they stay squashed. So now a lot of people think normality will continue indefinitely.
I don’t think normality will continue indefinitely, but it is likely to take a few years for the $#!% to hit the fan.
So I am just sitting and holding, and not paying much attention, as I have been for quite some time. If the sell off continues, it is a buying opportunity. If I feel a buying opportunity has arisen, then I will research the matter.
What I do pay attention to is technological developments in crypto currency, and the nature of the attacks against it.
Maybe the sell off is motivated by the success of the regulatory attacks on crypto currency. To me, the success of the regulatory attacks on crypto currency are a technological opportunity, but I suppose that to many people, looks like the doom of crypto currency.
I have been expecting successful regulatory attacks for quite some time.
Regarding the autism discussion: Here is a very recent poster boy for autism, and observe the entertainment branch of the cathedral jumping on with both hands. Which in itself is a damning sign, but lets judge for ourselves.
So, immediately my thoughts on seeing the kid is that something is obviously wrong with him. So, brain damage, explaining his eccentric behavior. Supposedly autism explains his behavior, but when his father gives his criteria for autistic behavior, I hear close to zero criteria from the dsm. So really, ‘autism’ seems to have slightly more predictive power than your zodiac sign, much less predictive power than brain damage.
Com, do you think you have brain damage? If not, I suggest that thinking of yourself as a victim of autism is not the healthiest way.
Autism is just a catch all term for a malfunctioning brain. Examples of autism are often contradictory like a kid who hates social interaction, and another kid who wants to endlessly
and enthusiastically educate other kids about Sonic the Hedgehog lore. What it means in context is just “malfunctioning brain”. Have to figure out what they mean from context. When icycalm calls someone an autist in a derogatory way he is saying they have brain damage that makes them prefer inferior simpler uglier video games. When a 4channer calls someone an autist in a positive way he is saying they investigate a topic in a very obsessive and logical manner. When Cominator says he is an autist he is saying he is not good at socializing with people who are much less intelligent than him and who he basically views as subhuman. When a psychiatrist diagnoses someone with autism they mean “GIBS ME MONEY GIBS ME DAT MONEY I WENT TO COLLEGE GIB MONEY GIB MONEY GIBS ME DAT FEDERAL RESERVE GOVERNMENT MONEY GIMME DAT APPLE CART”
I think it’s fair to say it’s an anti-concept.
While my IQ is above average but I’m not a genius (I’m certainly not Jim) and I try not to view people too harshly until they do something that upset me…
Also there is some compartmentalization within higher intelligence. My geometric math skills were in general much higher than my algebraic math skills. I struggled with even introductory algebra initially the concepts just seemed strange and yet I remember in geometry we had “reflection proof” problems and I got it and I remember I didn’t even have too much trouble with it and I can’t remember if NOBODY else did or my best friend the truly genius 1600 SAT score who became an MIT physics major also got it (I know that it was nobody but us). I was never good with complex integrals or infinite series (signals class was the bane of my existence in electrical engineering I finally passed it by taking it in a summer going to bed right after class every day waking up at 1 in the morning studying for 8 hours on just that class, and after barely passing I promptly forgot nearly everything).
The people I tend to hate most are intelligent people who have willfully rejected truth and they tend to be not the dumber people who I especially in recent years have come to take a more charitable view of, but people of slightly above average IQ who have decided to become cathedral parrots.
Autism is very real; my son is a textbook case of the low-functioning sort. Its most obvious link to Asperger’s is that Asperger parents beget a lot of autistic children.
The spectrum isn’t “brain damage”, it’s a specific set of genes that travel together, which is rather mysterious because spergs don’t socialize well and have great difficulty finding mates, raising the question of why they didn’t go extinct long ago.
Strong social skills are usually beneficial to one’s genes, but on the occasions when society becomes a herd of lemmings stampeding off a cliff, social misfits are left behind to repopulate.
As to Cominator’s frustration with high-IQ people adopting anti-human ideologies, Spengler’s Bioleninism essay said that smart people do OK under pretty much any social system because they figure out new rules faster than proles can. However painful it may be, change is good when it kills your competition without killing you.
Truly smart people adopting demon worship (at least the stronger forms of it) is rare its the midwits who tend to do so…
“The spectrum isn’t “brain damage”, it’s a specific set of genes that travel together, which is rather mysterious because spergs don’t socialize well and have great difficulty finding mates, raising the question of why they didn’t go extinct long ago.”
It doesn’t seem totally heritable.
The reason homosexuality exists is because it is non genetic. Identical twins raised apart have near zero concordance. What is the concordance on autism?
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2011/07/98350/study-debunks-autism-primarily-genetic-disorder
Looks like there is a genetic component but the genetic component alone is not sufficient. If its an in vitro issue also it would appear genetic if you based it entirely on twin studies.
Someone studied homosexual behavior in animals, which is so widespread as to be universal across species — and concluded that it’s an ordinary juvenile exploratory behavior, but is normally outgrown soon after sexual maturity (tho there’s still lots of hopeful opportunistic homo-humping, by both sexes, instantly abandoned whenever the real thing is available).
It’s probably the same in humans, whether due to genetic load or environment: a behavior that is normally outgrown, but in gays persists. I don’t think it’s coincidence that most gays seem to be emotionally about 12 years old. Basically, they failed to fully mature, probably due to inappropriate androgen exposure in the womb. Identical twins are not always hormonally identical in the womb, and hormones control both maturity and degree of masculinization.
I never had ANY inclination towards the perversion and cannot accept that the idea is normal in most of the population at any point.
I also thought gays are at some point boys raped by older gays.
I suspect most normal boys pass through the stage without noticing it, because it happens before puberty and before the initiation of sexual interest, and is NOT itself sexual, but rather is a transitional/formative period (part of that time when boys really need their fathers, and when fatherless boys become prone to act out, starting about age 9). For those whose masculine development is retarded (as noted, quite likely by low androgen in the womb), that juvenile pliability is delayed or extended, and overlaps sexual awakening, and then if there’s nothing propelling ’em into becoming normal men (like what Dave noted below) they can become gay. Not coincidentally, gay males seem to notice their own predilection after puberty, ie. rather later than normal males start noticing and reacting to girls.
Juvenile male homosexuality in animals also tends to happen during that same pre-puberty stage, and overlaps somewhat with puberty if they have no better targets than another of the same sex. But animals don’t have anyone telling ’em how stunning and brave they are, so as soon as females are available, females become the preferred target. (Tho some opportunistic humping still happens with whatever will stand still. The most amusing I’ve seen was a tomcat that for lack of anything better, became enamored of a rabbit.)
[Female animal homosexuality seems to be equal parts masturbation and wishful thinking, and is not a stage but rather an ongoing thing, generally dropped whenever a male is available.]
The road from boyhood to manhood is long, hard, and dangerous. What motivates boys to attempt the journey is the holy grail of pussy. A healthy society guides boys into pro-social manly activities and rewards them with wives if they pass the test. Our society tells boys they’re evil for wanting what boys everywhere have always wanted.
If other activities are available that achieve an orgasmic dopamine rush without the hard work, like smoking weed or smoking dick, some boys will go that way instead. They will never become men because they feel no need to.
I do not know the exact cause (I do NOT think it is strictly hereditary as autists sometimes do manage to have kids and it doesn’t seem to pass on, it may be an in vitro thing) but trust me its real enough. My brain functions well enough for reasoning and analysis but my fine motor skills have also always sucked as badly as my social skills. I do not have any serious head injuries that I know of.
The Cathedral probably wants to assume a sort of gleichschaltung of autistic education for younger autists because a bunch of autistic 4chan shitposters damaged their legitimacy (autists tend to really really hate deception and a regime based on blatant constant lies is not something they like) over the past decade in a way they have sort of checked for now… but will never forget. I don’t think they’ll be successful but this is more about the regime wanting to coopt a threat.
The other thing is autists had some chance of scoring chicks really up until the era of modern wokeness but the metoo era of fat lesbian women who won’t even talk to men who don’t seem Jeremy Meeksesque makes it virtually impossible for us unless you want to do my stripper thing
Your first criteria if autism is another one I have yet to hear: autists hate lies. Besides the, ahem, self-serving definition 🙃, what category do you think that criteria applies better to: autists, or good men?
As for the low scoring with chicks: I could just as easily argue that autists, with their strong frame and disregard for social norms, should easily score chicks. Again, what category does the criteria better apply to: autists, or low-T men?
Its not just hating lies its being slow to grasp even the concept of deception.
High functioning autists/spergs (and this was true in my case) don’t even grasp the concept of saying anything other than exactly what is in your head later than most children. I’m not sure if the issue is so much repetition as obsession. I’ll go through phases of being obsessed with certain topics most of which aren’t useful. I’ll be obsessed with WWII for a number of months and be obsessed with the Star Wars expanded universe in a few other months (I have also been obsessed with discovering the Cathedral’s command and control function but other than finding bits and pieces I have failed). Fatally this kind of thinking also tends to give spergs oneitis with girls although after getting burned bad enough over the years this gets cured…
As an autist myself, it’s not that hate lies, but that we have to use patterns and logic to maneuver through social situations. Lies are inconsistencies that make it difficult to socialize. They disrupt the pattern recognition that lets us function. It feels like an attack, so the result is that it causes us to view liars as unpredictable and dislike them. It’s not as if autists never lie or manipulate. Its that when people say one thing and do another it’s upsetting and confusing.
We are slow to grasp the concept of deception at least i was…
I was considered quite gullible as a kid. I’m still quite gullible but I’m now deep suspicious that everyone trying to manipulate me and I tend to be very untrusting. I find discerning truth from lies is based on talking to people is very difficult and mentally painful.
I bought my first house not too long ago and the most difficult thing about home ownership is hiring people do work on the house. I have an extremely difficult time dealing with people and due to a total lack of hand eye coordination I absolutely suck at doing my own handy work. Trust is hard and it’s worse when you’ve pre-conditioned to being lied to and abused by people who know how to lie well.
One of the things I love the most of about NRx is the emphasis on telling the truth. Speaking the truth increases in an age of lies gives me hope for the future.
They lumped in autism with Aspergers with autism back in 2013 because people with Aspergers tend to be unusually gifted while being social stilted and people with autism have brain damage that makes them retarded. The goal was to make people with Aspergers feel broken.
https://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/mental-health-aspergers-syndrome
I was born with what used to be called Aspergers and I’ve met other people with it and we as a group tend to be incredibly obsessed with small areas of life, repeat ourselves endlessly, and annoy the shit out of people who don’t have it. Social situations are hell with large groups of people and I can never read what people are thinking unless I spend a great deal of time around them. All the normal social ques and telling polite lies tend to be missed. This is not always a bad thing, ignoring social ques with women works great as long as you don’t worry about if you are violating social norms or not.
For instance I was once at a small house party where the entertainment was a belly dancer. Of course everyone wanted to bang her after she got done dancing but she was refusing drinks looked like she was getting ready to go. So someone asked her age and she said guess. I guessed 30 because it was funny(she was 22). For the rest of the party this chick was glued to my arm. I’d negged her when I’d never heard of the concept of negs, all because I didn’t consider the social construct that you don’t remind women that the wall is coming.
At the same time people with Aspergers are often very intelligent in some areas of life. I’m that way with software engineering, general logic, and mathematics to a lesser degree. I’m around 20-30 IQ points smarter than anyone in my family. My guess is Aspergers is a brain recombination that overwrites sections of social instincts with more generalized intelligence capacity. You’ve got more room to learn but basic social interactions are not automatic.
“I was born with what used to be called Aspergers and I’ve met other people with it and we as a group tend to be incredibly obsessed with small areas of life, repeat ourselves endlessly, and annoy the shit out of people who don’t have it. Social situations are hell with large groups of people and I can never read what people are thinking unless I spend a great deal of time around them. All the normal social ques and telling polite lies tend to be missed. This is not always a bad thing, ignoring social ques with women works great as long as you don’t worry about if you are violating social norms or not.
For instance I was once at a small house party where the entertainment was a belly dancer. Of course everyone wanted to bang her after she got done dancing but she was refusing drinks looked like she was getting ready to go. So someone asked her age and she said guess. I guessed 30 because it was funny(she was 22). For the rest of the party this chick was glued to my arm. I’d negged her when I’d never heard of the concept of negs, all because I didn’t consider the social construct that you don’t remind women that the wall is coming.”
My experience is that chicks like our lack of conformity to unwritten rules until they realize we’re not alpha just socially retarded.
Strippers and “dancers” like me too…
>My experience is that chicks like our lack of conformity to unwritten rules until they realize we’re not alpha just socially retarded.
Yep. I’ve had some great moments of seduction, but once the girl figures out I’m socially awkward things go poorly. When is why I tend to do the thug game. It’s easier to maintain that frame. Of course there was that one girl who wanted me to beat her and of course I was accused of beating her when I refused to do so. That was a hard lesson.
Yeah don’t do thug game because you tend to end up in actual thug situations… never had a girl want to beat her only spank her very hard.
I have all the same traits you said you unintentionally negged the dancer… never had any luck negging. Strippers seem to like so called horny nice guy game in a way more normal women dont. They DO like being called sluts and whores when things escalate to a certain point… in a dominant way not a judgemental one.
>I have all the same traits you said you unintentionally negged the dancer… never had any luck negging.
Negging works best for me when I treat the girl like my bratty little sister, which is what I was doing with belly dancer. Of course I didn’t realize it was nuclear level neg (this girl was hot as fuck and even my player friend was getting no where with her). If I think intentionally about negging, it doesn’t work for me.
They can detect when negging is forced and artificial.
Can you describe how to do it properly in detail?
Search the red pill subreddit for it.
I’ve read about it but I’ve never seen good detailed instructions on how to do it properly for social retards such as myself.
https://heartiste.net/the-subtle-art-of-the-insidious-neg/
They work best on very hot women who are used to being beta orbited. All you’re doing is establishing that your value is higher. Unnecessary when it’s already established your value is already higher.
Some of the information may also be downright wrong as well, I can speak with good authority on stripper game and the typical stripper game post says don’t get a lap dance…
Wrong make her qualify and comply a bit then get a lap dance and escalate. If you want to screw a girl above your normal smv and game skill at low (as opposed to no charge) stripper game is for you but she just isnt going to do a guy she just met at her work for free and without getting a dance niggers are always trying to get them to do this… not with much success.
Okay pooch good list i think in the spirit of that list the word i would use is “innocent”…
> All you’re doing is establishing that your value is higher.
Negs are not the only way to establish that. I once plucked a women’s large straw hat from her head and put it on during a bus ride back to the hotel at a conference in DC. She was mildly outraged but by grabbing the hat I demonstrated higher value than her and I turned it into game, which she loved. Having the frame that you’re better than her is really useful.
Oddly I hadn’t even spoken to her before I stole the hat. It just felt like a funny thing to do and I did it. Maybe she was sending me signals and I reacted to them, or maybe I decided I wanted to bang her and I ignored the normal social rules and focused on what was fun.
Cominator I find red pill language to be obfuscating
For instance, instead of ‘be alpha’ I think of it like ‘be a man’ and it becomes much clearer. Instead of ‘negging’ I think of ‘looking down on’ or ‘giving a hard time.’ I find these much more natural cues, while the others are maybe useful in academic contexts.
You are using Newspeak, words that have been corrupted to destroy the capacity to think.
Red pill language is the rectification of names.
What women think is manly has not changed since we looked rather like apes. What men think is manly has changed.
The majority of my friends are socially retarded in one way or the other. It is much rarer to find a man who is socially savvy than one who is not.
As for the endless repetition: Not 100% sure about this one, but I am typing this in between my kid demanding I fetch a ball after he throws it behind the tv, over and over and over. If I stop fetching the ball, he gets angry, so perhaps he shows signs of autism. But it seems to me that for many men, an interest in a subject, bordering on obsession, is what allows us to become proficient in that subject, and in the end rightfully begets respect.
They lumped in autism with Aspergers with autism back in 2013 because people with Aspergers tend to be unusually gifted while being social stilted and people with autism have brain damage that makes them retarded. The goal was to make people with Aspergers feel broken.
Around 15 years ago my mom flew out, and decided she had “some news” to tell me. A local nurse friend of hers has a kid with aspergers/autism, and she had observed me over the years and diagnosed me as “high-functioning aspergers”. Mom said she had some papers in her suitcase to give me later.
Well that was a bummer. I thought about it, and it made sense. Like my slight compulsion to count the spokes on alloy wheels while at a red light. Not keeping record of it, but if i happened to look at a wheel, or some pattern on a wall, and wasn’t thinking about anything else at the time, I would count the spokes. That was in the Rainman spectrum. Other traits matched as well.
We met with her friend, who explained some things. At some point I cracked a joke and she said “That was funny. It’s very rare for aspies to have a sense of humor, so more evidence you are high-functioning.” Half hour later, her 17-ish son comes downstairs to find two invaders still occupying his living room, and blurts out something like “A home is for family, not for outsiders.” Apparently he’d been hiding in his room the whole time waiting for us to leave. But that was another Oh Shit momemt. I also get that feeling of invasion when unexpected guests – even ones I like – show up. I would never blurt out what he did, rather just tolerate their presence in some degree of discomfort. Still, I was a bit worried about my “condition”.
The day she flew back home, mom gave me those photocopied, yellow-highlighted articles to read. It was replete with stuff like “aspergers sufferers will, given the wrong flavor ice cream, scream and flail their arms and smack their heads”. Just outlandish crap you’d only see in a mental ward, and not even in a movie about mental patients because it’s too absurd.
I threw that shit in the trash and never seriously considered it again. I would liken it to the Lead Paint Chip scam that blacks use, but I don’t think Whites have ever been fellow-white enough to monetize Aspergers Grift. If used to keep White kids out of diversitized classrooms, then more power to ’em, but I suspect it’s just a self-appointed Victimhood Badge for mothers.
The Debian Project’s vote on Richard M. Stallman (RMS) is arguably the single broadest-based response among actual open-source developers outside the Free Software Foundation (FSF) proper to the imbroglio that heads the thread. At this writing, 387 votes are in from (as of the last time the Project’s secretary published a count) approximately 1011 eligible voters. This represents somewhat heavier a voting turnout than usual.
For information, I have not counted, but believe that about 20 percent of the eligible voters reside in the United States as I do (and as RMS does, as well). The rest mostly reside in (listed in order of prevalence) the European Union, Britain and Latin America, but excepting negro sub-Saharan Africa, there are a few almost everywhere.
There has been some publicly visible discussion among developers of the desirability of breaking precedent and concealing the individual votes of the voting developers. As far as I know, the secretary has made no final determination regarding concealment, so we’ll see what happens. If the secretary follows precedent, after all (and if I had to guess, I would guess that he will), then results will be published at 23:59 UTC tonight.
Upon reflection of the discussion here, unfortunately, it would not wholly surprise me if the publication of results were followed by the purge of dissenting developers here predicted, especially if RMS should lose the vote by a wide margin. Even if it doesn’t, the Revolutionary pressure continues to build. Meanwhile, a purge of Debian on behalf of RMS would be ironic insofar as the Debian Project has, for the past 20 years, been the principal redoubt of open-source developers who were never especially keen on RMS in the first place; so it’s not as though the purged would be rabid RMS partisans. Debian would be getting rid, rather, of men who have kept RMS pretty consistently at a discreet arm’s length since long before the present Revolution burst onto the scene but who, despite that, still think the present anti-RMS witch hunt absurd.
The situation is not static. Several pieces are moving on this chessboard at once. Most of the movement lies out of my field of view.
So we’ll see. 23:59 UTC tonight.
Thanks for the updates. Since I fully abandoned Microsoft Debian or lately the downstream Ubuntu distribution, first due to it adopting systemd later, now due to some 3rd party software that only officially supports it, has been my daily driver for more than a decade.
If a purge commences and it hits too many of the people who handle security patching, might this entire ecosystem quickly become nonviable for a whole lot of users?
This is a good question. Any answer I gave would be pure, totally unfounded speculation.
Debian has expelled a smattering of unproductive pests over the years, but never as far as I recall anyone who was managing significant aspects of the Project such as security patches. Indeed, Debian has arguably erred in the opposite direction, letting the occasional squatter impede progress in his area of responsibility for years, judging it preferable to afford the squatter time to take the hint that he should step aside, rather than to force him out.
So a purge would be something new.
In the takeover of the science fiction writers association,an enormous number of writers who had never published a book voted
The number of Debian developers voting seem strangely large. What proportion of these developers have ever written a line of code.
Most, I believe. There are 50,000 software packages in Debian. Each package has a build configuration (debian/rules, which overlays the upstream developer’s Makefile or CMakefile or whatever), an installation script, and a bug tracker. The configuration and script do not write themselves: as you know if you’ve configured unpackaged software to work on even a single system, that generally takes a fair bit of fiddling to get right. Meanwhile, bugs have to be patched, upstream preferably, but within Debian if not upstream.
By no means are all packages actively maintained: some are in good enough shape and are useful enough to a small but nonzero number of users that they linger, untouched, in Debian for years; but their configurations and scripts still had to have been prepared by somebody, sometime.
Let’s try a (literally) random sample of Debian Developers whose votes the secretary’s web site reports as having been already recorded. No doxxing/namefaggotry, but if anyone does not care for my random sample, then he can go to construct his own.
Dev #1: no code I can see.
Dev #2: massive quantities of code, including code uploaded during 2021, mostly in natural-language processing and Perl modules. (This dev puts me to shame.)
Dev #3: not much since 2015, nothing I see since 2018, but this dev was a significant contributor in the early years of the Project, mostly in filesystems and network infrastructure.
Dev #4: massive quantities of code, including code uploaded during 2021, in several areas including JavaScript infrastructure, multimedia, and 3-D graphics rendering.
Dev #5: modest quantities of code, including code uploaded during 2021, all apparently having to do with banking and transfers of funds.
It’s too small a random sample to be fairly representative, I suppose, but there it is, for what it’s worth. All five in the sample happen to be male.
My sense is that the 1000 or so Developers probably consist roughly of
* 100 who have never written code but are held to have contributed in other significant ways;
* 300 who write code and usually vote;
* 100 who write code and do not vote;
* 100 who used to write code but still usually vote;
* 400 inactive, who no longer write code and no longer vote, but have not yet been retired from the Project’s roster.
Sorry, Jim. I didn’t get the thrust of your question the first time.
Most of Debian’s translators, graphic artists and so on lack voting rights, but some that have put in large numbers of hours over the years have won voting rights. There is one specific area in which voting rights have been granted to a small handful of women who do little in my observation but cause trouble and siphon off Project funds. (Well, I could speculate that they do something else, but that’s not fit for family consumption so I’ll say no more of it. I lack both curiosity and specifics, nor has anyone in the Project asked my opinion, anyway, so it’s not for me to say.)
If a translator does just a little coding, that seems to open the path to voting rights more easily.
I have never let any of that bother me much, admittedly. No org is perfect. Debian development has been a lot of fun, and I like the people.
A total of 420 votes were cast. Condorcet voting results are hard to summarize in a single sentence but, boiling it down, the upshot is that FSF and RMS seem to have won, 197 to 196.
However, only 77 took an unambiguously pro-RMS stance. The balance merely insist that Debian remain neutral and mind its business, so from that standpoint the result is
* 77 pro-RMS,
* 120 neutral,
* 196 anti-RMS.
I am surprised.
This is not at all what I expected.
I now expect that, like the election of Trump, it will be treated as an intolerable and outrageous anomaly, and decisive action will in due course be taken to prevent a recurrence.
I have no idea what to expect, so remain a step behind you as far as I know. Excepting devs from places like Russia and China, whose English is weaker and, thus, who participate less in list discussions (yet still vote), you got the social dynamics right.
I hold no particular brief for or against RMS, as you know, but the 196 who would have unpersoned RMS for using normal English pronouns and finding women attractive make no sense to me. I have known many of those guys a long time. Most of them were never so surly as some are now. It’s weird.
They are buck broken. Men like us can witness nearly unlimited amounts of horror and insanity and laugh in the face of it. Some men get totally buck broken and become a pathetic slave licking up their master’s vomit like a BDSM girl. Most men are somewhere in between. It probably has to do with child abuse, circumcision, spanking, strict striver parents. Trains the brain to submit to violence. That explains why they were more chill before. There has been increased threats of violence and psychological abuse from Moloch so they become increasingly subservient to Moloch because their parents trained them to do as they are told under threat of violence and psychological abuse.
If RMS is high status, they are not.
They have been disrespected.
It is not that their English is weaker. It is that Russia and China have nukes and are outside the American Hegemony.
This is the reason that their social dynamics is different.
I have made too many comments in the thread to assume that many are still reading, so let me add just one more thing and let it rest.
The result of 196 left versus 120 center versus 77 right is consistent with attitudes and personalities I have observed in the Debian Project during the past 15 or 20 years. The attitudes are sincere. The personalities are real. The neutrals mostly seem to agree with the leftists in substance, but don’t want Debian politicized.
The difference is that, 15 or 20 years ago, the left got along with the right. The right was generally free to discuss its rightism briefly in moderation. I seldom did, but some did. I remember a young dev from Chile at the annual conference in 2007 or 2008 who, while a pickup soccer game was forming, mentioned in English to the devs gathering to play that he was a “conservative, for Pinochet.” It sounds corny but I don’t know enough about Chilean politics to comment other than to report that he blurted it out with a serious look on his brow (in response to what, I have no idea) and yet, the Debian Project having more than the usual quotient of eccentrics, anyway, no one seemed much to care. Pinochet was dead in any event.
The incident left an impression because I would vaguely have imagined the first Pinochet man I met to be wearing golden epaulettes or carrying a swagger stick or riding a horse or a helicopter or something, instead of being a programmer kid in exercise shorts.
I remember an older dev from Germany in 2005 who showed me a verse in an English-language Bible for some obscure reason. Even cornier? Well, it happened, at the end of a session, standing in a noisy meeting room, while other devs were coming and going. A nice guy, he happened to be someone who had earlier connected me with someone else over IRC for help regarding a misbehaving library call, so I already knew him a little. I never found out for certain what point he was trying to make with the Bible, though, nor do I remember the verse, except that neither he nor the Pinochet supporter suffered any adverse consequences. Everyone remained relaxed.
Those were different days.
I suppose an English Debian developer might have been equally startled to encounter an American Debian developer who was a Reagan Republican and would have thought him some kind of eccentric. A Chilean Pinochet conservative is no more surprising, eccentric, or unusual than an American Reagan Republican.
You are inside a bubble of false consensus, and have been for quite some time. Because people have been curbing their tongues for quite some time.
No they were not. The disease was marginally less advanced than it now is.
If someone can push their brand of holiness on a developer mailing list without being ridiculed and told to shut up, you have a problem.
If someone can push their brand of holiness on any list, and be genuinely shocked and outraged when someone with a different brand of holiness pushes back, you have a considerably bigger problem.
If someone can push their brand of holiness on any list, and no one with a different brand of holiness dares push back, you have a very serious problem indeed.
If you thought a Chilean Pinochet conservative was some kind of eccentric, you already had the very serious problem indeed.
I did not personally think him eccentric. He struck me as one of the more balanced men at the conference. To get along with him required zero effort. He was just normal.
He’s probably an engineering manager or something in Valparaiso today, with a pretty wife, a nice house, and four kids.
To mention Pinochet for some reason, though, while standing next to a Mexican, a Frenchman and an American (me) while preparing to kick a ball around the yard, … well, it was an unusual thing to bring up in that context. Not something one heard every day. Had he instead said something about Lisp or matrix handling or SSE2 or whatever, I’d have forgotten the incident long ago.
That is all I meant.
Could be. My discernment in that area is evidently not strong, yet your speculation fits the observable facts at least as well as any other speculation of which I can think.
You would not find it surprising for an American to favorably mention Reagan while standing next to a Mexican, a Frenchman, and an Englishman.
Don’t assume this won’t be true for people now or in the future concerned about Debian and its downstream distributions. Linux has such a huge mind share it’s still a default in many ways and places, including my own very low cost VPS.
I’m not sure about”iu’s” reply, or rather, I think the situations he points out are so endemic we’re way past the “you have a problem” stage. Robert Conquest’s “Any organization not explicitly right-wing sooner or later becomes left-wing” is so true of everything in software and systems development I’m aware of that it’s something I assume as the default background. In the forums for nearly all projects punitive Leftism and the instant problem of canceling RMS are the default background, the only question is how social justice converged the project already is and therefore how much its become less useful, less functional, and how much it of its energy is consumed by these issues which contribute exactly nothing to the ostensible purpose of the project.
Convince me that in the long term those of us to the right of Mao won’t be completely removed from these projects and the public Internet in general, and will have to set up our own parallel communications systems just to be able to continue to do our FOSS work as samizdata, to borrow the name of the blog. Not an entirely daunting prospect to those of us who started computing with 1200 baud modems were rare, but it won’t be an easy adjustment.
I cannot convince even myself of that.
Many good points about which I lack a definite opinion have been made in this thread, but I do have an opinion about this point. There is no realistic prospect of displacing Debian.
About 30 percent of web services and other network services worldwide are served off Debian and its derivatives (mainly Ubuntu). A company that wants a standard platform that is not tied to a commercial provider like Microsoft, Apple or Red Hat has no realistic alternative. The word ecosystem is kinda gay but I lack another word for it: the ecosystem is firmly entwined with Debian.
Debian has quite a bit of cash, a strong stream of incoming financial contributions, and a stable global network of donated infrastructure. Official Developers who attend the annual conference usually pay only air fare, for room and board are sponsored for the week, as are the banquet and the entertainment. The wife can come, too, if she likes, gratis, during years in which the conference is not sited in a high-priced city.
I won’t overstate the glamor. Typical accommodations are of the college-dormitory type. Food except at the banquet is of institutional caliber. Golf, laundry and beer are on you, but the point is that the rest of it costs money and someone else pays.
Unless Debian should disappear and leave a vacuum, any attempt to replace Debian is doomed to develop into nothing more than an obscure hobbyist’s curiosity. There is just too much heavy iron backing Debian. Debian is too entrenched.
This is “normalcy bias” speaking, which our host noted literally killed Julius Caesar. To use an current not entirely related or applicable example, how many people are going to be using CentOS 9.x in the future? Answer: none, since IBM has terminated that particular distribution after buying Red Hat. There are many things that can kill Debian stone cold dead in the future, and social justice convergence is claimed to be one of them.
Let me ask you a loaded question for which your inside perspective would be appreciated: did Debian adopt systemd on its technical merits, did it decide to become another PoetteringOS because of “politics,” or perhaps in between because of the pressure of so much of the ecosystem being captured by Red Hat and allied projects which are intentionally or not making everything above the kernel an intertwingled, increasingly Linux only Window style mess, much as happened to NT after the release of version 3.51. Something which just happens to increase demand for Red Hat’s hand holding services….
I could make the same point due to mostly different causes about Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) after IBM finishes blue washing their acquisition.
Or to put it in Jim’s terms, a lot of apple carts ripe for overturning….
This is exactly my point, that the theory of social justice convergence means Debian will “disappear” as a viable distribution sooner or later. In the bit I snipped from the beginning of your reply, you cannot convince even yourself that we will be allowed to continue our FOSS work as such.
The theory of social justice convergence is not 100%, see much more converged GitHub in general providing a better service than not very well managed and much less visibly converged GitLab. The theory suggests GitHub should be getting noticably worse, while at best/worst it’s just mostly been static for users of their cloud service; does anyone reading this use their non-FOSS enterprise version on their own systems in-house?
Regarding the final paragraph, Github was acquired by Microsoft a while ago; perhaps that has provided a new focus.
Regarding Debian, I would agree with you. There is absolutely no reason for complacency. Let’s see if Debian starts, e.g., using its plentiful cash to fund various social justice causes (“girls who code!”). In particular, if this leads to disappointing outcomes and slow or no technical progress, Debian will be perceived to be a lot less critical than it is now.
At the risk of running too long, I shall answer point by point.
Since I do not and never have maintained the init system (though I maintain software that uses it) and since I have nothing to do with GNOME3 development, I stayed completely clear of the Systemd battle. Fellow Developers seemed to be fighting that battle fine without my help. I cast a ballot (won’t say which way), but that was it.
I do not believe that Systemd was adopted to please Red Hat.
Red Hat cannot displace Debian. Nothing can displace Debian. Microsoft for years devoted millions to displacing Debian, but gave up and now gives Debian money, despite getting little love in return. Debian fundamentally fills a noncommerical but nonhostile-to-commerce role nothing else fills.
I suppose that the annual conference could lose its funding (unlikely, but you never know); but otherwise, to compete commercially with world-class hobbyists like Debian’s, who do not ask to be paid but only like to build systems together (incidentally thereby burnishing their resumes), has proved to be just about impossible.
Several Debian women have in my opinion been snitching apples from that cart for the past 15 years. I do not want to overstate the problem, but I have never liked that.
Now that you mention it, it might be better if the money dried up.
Unfortunately for me, Debian can survive and thrive without my help. I can contribute on Debian’s terms or not at all.
Progressivism sucks, but progressives are temperamentally, dispositionally, aptitudinally, observably, markedly better at producing open-source software than you and I will ever be. They make questionable soldiers, poor managers, worse fathers and worthless prophets, but their personality type exists for a reason. I can confidently state that attempts to prove otherwise will go nowhere.
It would take a lengthy essay for which no one has asked to explain it, but even within the Debian Project, the right tends to do a different class of things and fill a different class of roles than the left does and fills. That’s personality types for you.
You’ve got to know when your foe holds the high ground.
Within a Restorational Royal Society context such as Jim and others here have foreshadowed, maybe the problem could be solved. It cannot be solved within the extant context as far as I know.
So, yeah, trying to capture Debian’s position by an unsupported frontal assault: that won’t work, unfortunately.
No they are not.
Rather, their faith flourishes because it is the state religion, and the state puts its thumb on the scales through various covert and overt pressures. When free software is developed in Russia or Mongolia, they do not do so well.
It is not aptitude. It is nukes. Russian nukes make a readily observable difference.
We are likely soon to encounter events wherein it will likely be revealed that American nukes no longer work, and Russian and possibly Chinese nukes do work. In which eventuality we will have some serious problems, but the problem of progressive entryism into free software will be considerably diminished.
I doubt it can survive and thrive without the help of everyone like you. NASA switched its primary focus from space travel to proving that men and women were interchangeable and science was stolen from Dar al Islam, and after a little while, its rockets stopped going up. Intel’s fabs stopped fabbing.
Progressives took over the Science Fiction and Fantasy writers association, and after a little while the Star Wars Franchise died, and people stopped reading Marvel comics. The West can no longer build tall buildings and nuclear reactors.
If progs cannot build tall buildings, cannot write free software. Systemd is the free software equivalent of tranny Thor and and Hans Soyboy.
In my experience almost everyone technically capable who has thought hard about politics has become some kind of rightist. A few become obscure leftists, generally a leftist based in a complex scripture (like Marxist) because the ability to do exegesis on the scripture appeals to their intellect.
A huge number of technically capable people believe in the state religion, but it’s a default position for those who do not care much, or do not spend much time thinking about it.
The largest category of persons supporting the state religion is those who are afraid or looking for advantage, and those are very rare among the very best people in the technical professions, because they have (until recently) had little to fear in the US hegemony. They have been too useful, and politics has been too weak. That is changing.
This has been my experience, too.
Also, when Debian requires an unpublished technical document, Debian does not always get it, but there is a good chance that a Debian Developer already working for the company that has the document can just ask his boss for the document on behalf of the Project. That helps.
Heck, half the time, the company sends a free sample of the hardware along with the document. They used to fuss over non-disclosure agreements (NDA) but as a matter of policy Debian never signs those, so mostly they just send the document now.
No new hobbyist’s project could leverage such an advantage.
I got carried away:
Overstatement by me. No such company has sent me any hardware. I refer to instances mentioned by other Developers, but cannot accurately say that it is half the time.
Jim, you have often said that French leftist descends from the False Popes of Avignon. Unlike Independentism, Lutheranism, Rabbinic Judaism, and the rest, I am unfamiliar with the ideology of the Avignon Papacy. Can you recommend any material on this topic?
—
I have read the second edition of “English Society 1688-1832,” and can confirm that it is a sound description of the destruction of the Anglican order by Whigs, and that it is sympathetic to the Anglicans and to the society they created.
Whether it is less so than the first edition, I cannot say.
a genetics researcher i quite like expounds upon data that can be summarized here as Jim fucking called it
not quite like i imagined but there it is
https://youtu.be/8FIpUhQMw5A
The Alternative Hypothesis is also great. He comprehensively proves that IQ is real and genetic and thoroughly debunks every argue against it ever made. It helped red pill me because it removed every possible rationalization from my brain so I had to either be red pilled or choose to be a liar, and I chose the former.
Thank you for the recommendation
People who donated to Kyle’s defense fund have been doxed:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/16/us-police-officers-public-officials-crowdfunding-website-data-breach
Campaign is already underway to purge them.
The notice is appreciated. Interesting.
The Revolution gathers speed.
Do you monitor The Guardian, the site to which you have linked? That’s useful, if you do. (I haven’t the stomach to do it, unfortunately.)
Got it from reddit. I check their news sub from time to time to get a feel for the shape of state propaganda. It’s noteworthy that any comments call for allowing Kyle to have a legal defense or defending the right to have assistance with that legal defense where censored by the site.
Speaking of state propaganda, this story is buried on the last page /r/news and will soon be deleted by the mods:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/elementary-school-principal-charged-sexually-abusing-9-boys-new-york-n1264245
While this is the top story on reddit because it’s a pastor(Though they’ve failed to notice that he’s a wetback pastor):
https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/crime/rafael-cuevas-multiple-counts-of-sexual-misconduct-jacksonville-crime/77-a2a61032-396e-4d1e-be1a-4bc2a0d53d20
Reporting that faggots rape young boys in huge numbers is a hate crime.
Second only to the medical tyranny, the worst development of the past couple of years seems to be that whites are literally not allowed to defend their homes and neighborhoods against blacks in any way, shape, or form, other than simply fleeing and letting them destroy things (even calling the police may result in your being targeted for harassments and/or be ineffective). But because the incidents are (for now) still isolated, it seems like the average white American doesn’t understand the threat this represents. Is there hope for people ever standing up to this sort of thing even in the form of e.g. a counter protest to the sort of protest that we saw recently in South Carolina. Like, where are this guy’s neighbors?
Anarcho-tyranny at the fullest.
Sure there is hope. People are at present adhering to the unofficial state religion. As soon as they stop believing in it, they’ll stand up.
As the state religion is a death cult, it will sooner or later self-destruct and be replaced by another religion.
Anyway, the problem is not limited to whites in America. It is not much different in western Europe. Mayor difference is that western Europe already has an alternative relgion to the present progressive death cult, namely Islam. That alternative has its disadvantages, of course, but Muslims are not allowing niggers to destroy their property.
Best you can do now is get the fuck away from
Africans at all cost. Too many Africans accosting people in your neighborhood? Time to move.
At this point it seems like even suburbs aren’t good enough because an African can “jog” into any random neighborhood, even if a lot of them don’t live there. At the same time big corps (Blackstone) are supposedly buying up rural housing, presumably to rent to replace single family homes for rural whites with apartments for refugees shipped there?
As the percentage of black population of a town goes up, criminality rises exponentially. From my understanding this town and the Georgia jogger town, although individual nice neighborhoods of the victims, black percentage of the town is still approaching 40%. Way too high. You’re playing with fire living around so many blacks even if your culder sac is white. US African percentage is still only 13% so moving away is still viable. I’m not sure what the right percentage is but anything over 15% and I’m feeling uneasy about it.
It’s the Hispanics that are getting harder and harder to move away from, but they aren’t nearly the problem of blacks (at least yet) because of the compounded effects of genetics AND holiness.
Hispanics will not go around killing whites before they go around killing blacks. They are more rational than hateful.
Exactly. Hispanics aren’t nearly the threat to your safety as blacks are. They are the extreme outlier. Having said that, living around Mexicans is going to resemble living in Mexico. Expect trash to be everywhere.
Wetbacks will steal from you and rape your wife and kids. You don’t want want them around. The difference is they can be deterred to some degree, blacks cannot without lethal violence.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/texas-father-kills-man-trying-to-sexually-assault-daughter-police-say
Secondly Hispanics have not been weaponized by the left yet. When they’re ready they will use them to mass murder whites. Niggers naturally murder anyone who doesn’t look like them, but Hispanics will eventually be used for the same purpose by the left.
I don’t think the left could ever elevate Hispanics above blacks in their holiness ranking at this point. They are locked into the mid-tier of the racial caste system because of too much white-admixture. They’ll need to mass import more sub-saharan Africans if they want a Detroit-style ethnic cleansing of the entire US.
If trends continue unopposed, I do see the regime’s security forces being replaced by a supermajority of Hispanics though, in much the same way the late Roman Empire’s army was full of Germanic barbarians. Like the Germancis, they’ll eventually realize they’re on the same side as the cartels and segments of the army will merge with them.
They don’t have to evaluate them above blacks, all they have to do is give Hispanic gangs free reign to target whites.
The hispanic gangs aren’t as stupid as the blacks to be indoctrinated to hate whites in the same way. They have their own form of cohesion, the old gods of Mexico. They’ll just kill everyone equally.
The left needed Hispanics back when votes mattered now its up in the air… they are not monolithic either i tended to hate them in Massachusetts but in Florida they ain’t so bad… hard to predict how things will go.
Trump picked up what 30-40% of them? Hey I’m fine fighting beside them if that’s what’s needed to win.
Impossible to live near blacks as a man because you will be forced to kill them in self defense and you will go to prison. Don’t fall for the trap of moving to a lily white libshit town in Maine or Minnesota or Washington though. White liberals are as dangerous as blacks in the long term because your neighbors will scheme behind your back to get you out into a concentration camp. Also avoid big cities obviously because they will turn into meat grinders as soon as the system receives a setback.
Nah, like Moldbug says, in the end it boils down to racial conflict. White liberals are dangerous because eventually they’ll feel guilty and import Africans and non-whites into your middle-class neighborhood (but obviously not into their zillion dollar elite gated community).
Although as things stand currently, I wouldn’t live in a 100% white shitlib place like Maine or Washington because of the China Flu insanity. I’d rather go to a place like Florida and trade a little bit of diversity for freedom from the covid bullshit.
Blacks are a proxy guerilla force for leftist whites entirely. If there are no leftists blacks would not be too much a problem.
Imagine South Afrika in a world without leftists, the whites would rule it (unless it got invaded) for 10000 years.
Exactly right.
Lots of blacks in eastern Washington. Sooner or later leftists import them to formally white areas.
*gets put into an anti-vaxxer FEMA concentration camp*
Well at least I lived in a racially pure aryan neighborhood!
Depends on where you are (for now the Feds may step in) there is a reason that Florida had no riots despite being a very very minority heavy state. You are very much allowed to defend yourself here (also race relations in Florida despite prog efforts are very good relative to New England which despite all the leftists pieties in practice different racial groups get along far worse).
Florida did have riots in the blue cities, but It’s not entirely riots that are the problem. It’s blacks randomly wandering into your neighborhood creating problems and when you tell them to get lost and call the cops, they come and arrest you for it.
You say the conflict is purely racial then invent a scenario where white cops put you in a white jail.
You glow in the dark.
You ever hear of Kyle Rittenhouse?
The guy who killed 3 white guys and is getting sent to prison by the white cops and white government? Great example proving my point nigger. I will never simp for white liberals and do the wignat move of saying they are perfect angels who are just manipulated to do bad things by Jew mind control rays and 13% of the population with 85 IQ.
I would argue the violence against him is still communal violence. Kyle was attacked by the white allies of rioting blacks. If no rioting blacks, no need for Kyle Rittenhouse to be there.
You ever take the shill test?
https://blog.reaction.la/war/now-we-are-in-trouble/#comment-2693539
The conflict is BDH-OV, what I meant is that the violence between the groups inevitability is going to be racial violence (Moldbug calls it communal violence).
The white shitlib places like a lot of New England are actually quite safe and nice. Boston is a beautiful city simply because there’s not many blacks there. Pre-covid, the worst you’d have to deal with were maybe high taxes and pride flags. Post-covid, they are still nice places but it’s going to be increasingly unbearable with covid restrictions. Same thing is happening in Canada.
https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/2007/05/bdh-ov-conflict_07/
Good essay. In short, the Left is morally bankrupt, while the Right is intellectually bankrupt. I don’t see how the latter might win, but if they do, public schools will switch from trannyfaggotry to young-earth creationism and Victorian “women are angels despoiled by evil men” sex-ed.
Moldbug was (and is) letting his biases bleed through there; he is a son of blue tribe, identifies with blue tribe, and thinks blue tribe is the good and the great; that they just need to see the right cleverly worded essay, and then they will come to their senses and stop all this nonsense.
>You are very much allowed to defend yourself here (also race relations in Florida despite prog efforts are very good relative to New England which despite all the leftists pieties in practice different racial groups get along far worse).
The Zimmerman trial is a big part of this. The left made a big push to make black criminals sacrosanct from self defense laws and lost.
Just a few observations on Antifa:
Antifa was present in the United States protests back in 2008 under the label of Anarchists. Even then it was observed there were undercover operatives in their movement.
Mark Bray has written a handbook for their adherents that you can find on archive.org called Antifa Handbook. It is written as a quasi history of authoritarian governments that were antisemitic with advice on rioting and property damage.
Locally here, there are four primary Antifa leaders. The primary leader claims to be a freelance journalist and has frequent contact with the FBI in which they ask her about any threats made towards Antifa.
The secondary leader is a white male who claims to be is ex-military Intel. I tried to verify this through the AF OSI but they seemed more interested with me than Antifa. This individual also attends Law School here locally which I did verify.
Following 1/6, I have observed multiple Antifa accounts turned FBI informant in a desperate attempt to rat out Trump supporters.
Recently I was watching a Unicorn Riot stream where a police Captain smiles at the cameraman saying they follow their work while at the same time arresting other journalists. Unicorn Riot is often linked to by various Antifa groups and seems to be working with them.
Antifa ramped up their activity just as normal citizens tried to protest the lockdown. Antifa also shows up at any free speech protest to counter protest.
I observed a local protest here through one of their live streams and the local police department was standing right in front of them very relaxed as if acting out some live photo op.
There’s more but overall I’ve laid out my case for the following conclusion. And that is that Antifa is not some grass roots movement as we are led to believe. They are clearly working in concert with federal and state government. The goal of which is to create chaos, prevent real dialog and stifle any grass roots movement to address government overreach through intimidation.
thank you captain obvious.
(y’all think this guy is a fed?)
we shall see.
More data needed. If a fed, will unintentionally leak more data soon enough. They glow in the dark.
I’m trying to expose Antifa as a fraud.
Earlier you were supporting the Soros theory. I’ve shown there’s more to it.
There is always more to it. Any account of reality is a necessarily a simplification. That antifa is a fraud is not news here, hence the the response to your news was not altogether breathless.
It is entirely obvious that Antifa has more central direction and state sponsorship than it pretends. The question then is, where is the center?
Soros bankrolling politicians makes him the center?
They are being contacted by FBI directly. Todays FBI isn’t the ’50s Hollywood suit and tie. I’ve seen them at job fairs. They are diverse millennial types, fat sloppy, uppity and edgy. Lots of woke white females.
No, I believe Antifa is an FBI black project funded by your tax dollars with the intend of disrupting your First Amendment rights and allowing biggov to roll over you. A lot are college students with government backed loans waiting to be forgiven. And, I wouldn’t be surprised if they had some sort of revolving door program.
Soros funding Antifa makes him the center. Soros is the State Department money pipeline, the cutout. He funds stuff the USG wants funded, but does not want its fingerprints directly on.
Maybe the FBI is in charge, but not necessarily directly funding.
Gates, Schwab, and Soros are objectively the center.
Gates, Schwab, and Soros are mailmen who drop the off the money where their masters order them. The question is, who’s the masters?
https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/royal-navy-reports-russia-closing-5304504 Russia closing off the black sea… not good. Putin obviously thinks war risk now is very high with our insane government.
May god grant Putin the strength and wisdom to smite the demonic forces stacked against him.
Geographical autism alert!
Technically, Russia has not closed the Black Sea but the Sea of Azov. The only country with the physical capability to close the Black Sea is Turkey (that is NATO).
The portions of the deep state want war with Russia and who’s ever controlling Biden is trying to avoid it. So when the deep state push Russia, Russia pushes back and Biden caves.
Jim has pointed out that whites are wolf to whites. I ran across a similar Solzhenitsyn statement in 200 Years Together. It seems that when some whites are accused of being tribal, they expend extra effort to prove they are not to the extent of throwing their own under the bus.
There is more than a culture war going on here. It is tribal. Noel Ignatiev best described it when he said the task is to organize minorities to end the legacy of whiteness. That is what we are seeing.
Tucker points out the hypocrisy of the other side, but they already know and don’t care. There are no more people to be red pilled. If a strong leader does not emerge soon, it will be over.
Plenty of people still left to be red-pilled.
Just me or is the right becoming vaccinated against left wing smears? Usually when The Cathedral targets a limping conservative they break ranks and he gets eaten, but it seems like the attacks are not working very well this week.
1. The front page of reddit is all stories about how Matt Gaetz has pedophile rape orgies in the Bahamas with harems of 15 year old girls. Wall to wall coverage in the media strongly implying. All republicans are defending him. Fox News is defending him. He seems in high spirits. Republicans are retweeting the epic Project Veritas video of a CNN director saying “Matt Gaetz is too much of a threat we had to use propaganda to destroy him.” Seems like Republicans love that guy now. Maybe we will soon be allowed to take harems of 15 year olds on trips to the Bahamas?
2. Tucker’s Odyssey
Day 1: calls Asa Hutchinson a child abusing faggot cuck <—- media starts sucking off Hutchinson a lil bit
Day 2: names the white genocide <—- wall to wall coverage on all networks coordinated by the ADL calling him a white supremacist
Day 3: NAMES THE JEW, Charlie Kirk also names the Jew <—- media in fucking hysterics
Day 4: Says the capitol siege was AWESOME, HER NAME WAS ASHLI BABBIT SAY HER NAME <—- journalists hyperventilating
Usually when a Fox host says something slightly red pilled the Fox executives try to shut it down, but he just went off for 4 days in a row and seems like he is under no duress and will face no recourse.
Definitely a positive development the court packing and filbuster elimination push seems to have redpilled some of these cucks but it wont’ matter unless the right develops the capacity for organized violence.
My cynical side says GOP is great on the issues when they’re out of power, but imainstreaming of such ideas is surely positive.
Definitely positive developments, but the Murdochs’ line in the stand is still race which is a good proxy of where the Republican elite stand. Tucker can’t yet mention white replacement but he can mention everything but, which wasn’t the case a year ago. We need the Overton Window to keep nudging to the right until the term “White Replacement” is acceptable.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2021/04/14/white-house-explains-why-they-will-let-private-sector-initiate-the-vaccine-passport-demand-government-doesnt-need-to-get-involved-when-multinationals-do-their-bidding/#more-210982
Nice set up for Civil War II
It’s weird how boomers like Sundance can’t get past the Marxists it’s all about the money analysis. Companies in general don’t want vaccine passports. Companies are enforce government edict because we’re living under a national socialist government that uses the corporations to enforce it’s will much as the Nazis did.
Almost as if they’re Vaishyas who can’t think of anything apart from “all about the money.” This is what makes them vulnerable to priestly attacks, by Jews or Harvard.
What I agree with is that we are trending to free and control states. It’s going to come down to states rights, again. I’m starting to think a SERIOUS secession movement could have real elite support with they keep pressing on Covid.
But it is in fact about the money, it’s not Marxist analysis, it’s ancient wisdom: birds die for food but humans die for riches. What constitutes Marxist analysis is boiling everything down to economics, which is done by design because Marxism is a priestly attack on merchants utilizing less successful merchants/artisans against their own. Marxists promote the framework that everything boils down to economics, there is only merchants and artisans, like the magician moves the hands to distract you while behind the scenes performs his tricks. But while not everything boils down to economics, because priests and warriors also exist, everything actually does boil down to money or what money represents: benefits.
Progressive priests promote dissent among the merchants and the artisans to get a cut, they make it so the apple-cart is toppled because when the apples are on the ground and uncontrolled they have created an opportunity for them to take some. They create a conflict based on misrepresentation of facts or simple libel and then claim that they are required to solve this artificially built conflict, for which of course they will be appropriately compensated: this is exactly what the Democrats have been doing for decades and it’s the reason why the holiness spiral itself exists. If you’re a new progressive priest in the block, you’ll need to topple new apple-carts to get your cut, so they started with banking and “looking out for the small guy”, using the small guy as an excuse to defect on the big guy and loot him, then women, then niggers, then faggots, then transsexuals. They actually probably started way before that, in the original fight of federalism vs confederalism, federalism being a very good excuse to ransack the states “on the interests of national unity and protecting the Republic”. You either sell your new snake-oil or you bring an innovation to the old snake-oil, just like the nigger narrative has become increasingly stupid, nonsensical and insane with its development.
The misrepresentation of the cause and effect by Sundance is either prompted by his intellectual inability and ignorance or because he is a priest selling his own snake-oil. If you’re a priest that wants to replace the other priest, you will very happily keep promoting the framework that let’s you play all your tricks, like the Casino and the house always win, merchants and artisans will keep fighting each other and you will keep getting your cut. But Boomers in general have an instinctual feeling that capitalism is not the problem so they want to defend it, while still being under the effect of priestly narratives which jumble all of it together giving you some very out of touch arguments. They have not known any other education, but that everything boils down to merchants and only merchants exist, they can’t recognize the priest and his tricks.
But make no mistake, this is about money, the priest wants riches. If he couldn’t make a good living out of defecting on you and everyone else, he wouldn’t, though he is probably also unnecessarily malicious, because of being evil or drunk and insane on his own snake-oil.
>The misrepresentation of the cause and effect by Sundance is either prompted by his intellectual inability and ignorance or because he is a priest selling his own snake-oil.
I think Suones nailed, Sundance runs a his own grocery store, at least used to. He’s a merchant, thus he sees everything in terms of Merchants.
The artisans haven’t been getting a cut since the 1970s…
https://graymirror.substack.com/p/big-tech-has-no-power-at-all
This is moldings post on big tech I agree with most of it but I find it hard to believe there is no command and control… some glownigger type force targeted Zuckerberg when he wanted to allow free speech on facebook.
Nah he was getting threats in the press and the courts.
Modly’s full of shit on no command and control. I see it all the time in the press and with online shills.
It’s interesting seeing how limited his perspective is without understanding religion. Sundance gets closer to the root of the issue with his pictures of people knelling down to BLM than Moldy does.
Ironic since his whole Big Idea in the first place was about the reality of command and control behind the illusion of ‘independent voices who all just happen to agree on everything’.
Not what you could call aging gracefully.
Great example of Havel’s greengrocer at work here with Charlie Kirk: https://twitter.com/charliekirk11/status/1382101931380805635
Charlie Kirk is an establishment cuck Republican and just mindlessly parrots whatever the mainstream GOP party lines are. A year ago he called people racists and anti-semites for tweeting the exact same things. Now that replacement migration is in the mainstream and no longer thoughtcrime (thanks to Tucker’s brilliant monologue) he likely would fail to remember that he thought any different if you asked him what changed.
Tucker’s monologue: https://twitter.com/ColumbiaBugle/status/1381770500926361603
Charlie Kirk is not the greengrocer. He’s the apparatchik back at Party headquarters who decides what posters to send out to all the greengrocers along with their carrots and spinach.
That’s a fair assessment.
I don’t get exactly what was ever so bad about him… he was not a Nevertrumper type.
Kirk’s flaws were mainly the same bluepilled normalcy bias of Trump himself.
He is a mirror of the Republican establishment.
He tries to get everyone to the right of him cancelled. He has zero right wing values. He advocated for open borders “I think the US should staple green cards to diplomas”.
I’m not even sure if he supported Trump during the primaries. Trump never advocated for open border “as long as they come here legally!” or tried to cancel anyone to the right of him (besides James Fields and the 1/6 people). Charlie Kirk is one of the many RINO parasites abusing Trump’s senility to get rich quick and undermine his agenda.
Nick Fuentes collected Kirk’s skull by waging The Groyper War against him.
I had barely heard of him until the groyper situation and as far as I can tell looking at him his main function was to try to get so called center right cuckservative types to vote for Trump.
He barely lifted a finger during stop the steal like the rest of the GOP that’s all you need to know.
Roosh on the holiness spiral.
https://twitter.com/rooshv/status/1381810512124608514
He is a holiness spiraller himself. He is also doing some psycho sexual thing where he has already fucked hundreds of white girls, but now he is virtually castrating white men.
Greetings fellow CHRISTIAN man. I am an ARAB STUD. I have defiled over 200 white girls. I have had one night stands with white girls who are “so drunk they could not walk“, took their virginity, and refused to call them back. I have went about this in such a cruel and heartless manner that you should feel bad, about yourself!
Even though you are an empathetic white guy who just wants to have some fun and hopefully find a nice girlfriend and then have a wife and kids and not an EVIL ARAB STUD PSYCHOPATH, I am now all of a sudden priest of YOUR religion. Not only that but despite all of my evil deeds, I am much holier than thou. If you have sex, I declare that that is fornication and unholy. Thou must be a castrated incel. If you attempt to have sex, I declare that that is GAME and unholy. I can say that because I have raped 200 white girls, so I am an expert on unholiness and you are just like me if you talk to a hot girl. If thou are a white man thou must not have sex nor reproduce without following my Holy Christian Guidelines. These Holy Christian Guidelines, invented by me, an Arab rapist, basically castrate you and end your bloodline hahahahaha! Well at least you won’t get to HELL! You will die as a white incel cuck and go to heaven, I do declare, inshalla- oops I mean Praise Jesus!
Roosh is honestly a useless idiot. His only function is browbeating white men into being celibate and mediocre in the name of “holiness”. If you point this out he will “disprove” you by saying you are less holy than Him despite behaving like a complete sadistic psychopath until recently. (And I would argue that he is STILL acting like a sadistic psychopath, but in a much much insidious way.)
Roosh is obviously quite sincere I don’t think his change is entirely for the best but hes sincere.
The problem with Roosh’s new stance is he letting his faith in his new religion override certain aspects of redpill truth.
Roosh thinks fornicating for fun is sinful and wrong and part of a twisted and satanic social order that it even occurs in such a widespread way okay fine… the problem with his knew stance is he has enough redpill knowledge to know that nowadays you HAVE TO fuck a girl before you court her for marriage and furthermore marriage 1.0 doesn’t legally exist anyway and you need to be a plausibly violent thug to have a chance at it. Girls are extremely flaky with guys they haven’t fucked yet…
Roosh’s stance should be its okay to practice pickup and casually fucking girls because there is no other way to find one and marry one nowadays. That would be redpilled christian.
He’s sincerely a religious zealot who is subconsciously acting out a primal Muslim bride gathering ritual. He’s possessed, just like he was possessed by the need to fuck as many white girls as possible, regardless of whether he even liked them or if they were hot, regardless of their feelings, regardless of making his own life better or making the world a better place for anyone. He doesn’t do any conscious lying, he doesn’t have self control, he is fully under the control of his own trauma and zeal.
By the way, I’m not a Christian or a theologian. How bad exactly does the Bible say “fornication” is? It’s not one of the Ten Commandments. The Bible also says “be fruitful and multiply”. Could you not make a solid case for prioritizing that over avoiding pre-marital sex and “game”, especially in the world we are living in?
Hes a high T Levantine who got tired of sex (and really even if you don’t want to get married you want to MOSTLY bang one slut at a time with maybe occasionally banging another one) with sloots he didn’t own in his old age.
I do not think he wants multiple sloots he wants one ideal tradbride now as Orthodox Christians do not practice polygamy if he wanted polygamy he would not have become an Orthodox Christian, he may have trouble finding his tradbride if hes not willing to occasionally bang her during a courtship (and he will find that the girl being a trad religious girl will make absolutely zero difference in this fact, women’s limbic sexual circuits are designed to override any rational moral etc considerations).
Nah he was just a sexless autistic nerd throughout high school/college (like most men) and was tired of not having sex with any of the pretty girls around him. So he dedicated his life to figuring out an autistic way to do it, then realized after many years it wasn’t fulfilling because he didn’t own any of them and remained in a state of perpetual defect/defect.
That’s the point. In his mind he calls out for Yahweh, but his blood calls for Baphomet. This is the thing with Old Gods — you cannot escape. Obeying your God is like swimming with the current, its easier and you go much farther, much faster. I advocated once, for him to renounce his stupid fixation on his mother’s stupidity and admit what he is — a Muslim. He blocked me lol.
PS: For any Literalist Fools: Baphomet is absolutely an Old God, far predating Muhammad and at par with Yahweh. His Temple at Mecca is ancient.
Islam is an evil universal religion. Their holy scriptures literally say their god is the greatest of decievers ie the father of lies. The christian view of Muhammad was that he was indeed a prophet OF SATAN.
You fundamentally misunderstand Baphomet. It only pretends to continuity with Yahweh cultists, but it is in reality an absolutist cult of Ishmaelites’ Moon God, Baphomet. When Yahweh cast Hajira and her child Ishmael out into the desert to die, she found the spirit of the desert, who let them live and found Mecca. That spirit is Baphomet, is very, very powerful, and is older than Iram of the pillars. One of the oldest of Old Gods. Equating him with “Satan” or such Yahwehite foolishness is a fatal mistake.
My conjecture is that the Cult of Baphomet lay dormant once the fertile Sahara turned to desert, but was revived in spectacular fashion by Muhammad. Only the Templars worked out some of the secrets, but they were purged by Philip.
Sons of Bharat have been in conflict with Baphometans for a millenium, and the worst mistake one can make is to underestimate Baphomet’s spiritual power (as Prithviraj Chauhan found out).
I would (genuinely) like to hear you elaborate more on your theology here. Who are the Old Gods, what is the source of their power? I have never heard Yahweh discussed from a polytheistic viewpoint before, fascinating.
My favorite passage (and if I were king with a state church it would be a general order that all priests must reference this passage once in EVERY weekly sermon) in the bible is Matthew 15:20 about fruit and false prophets.
Islam destroys technological civilization except that it keeps expanding (much like socialism), its own book says that its God is the father of lies… and even worse it prefers cats (yeah I know Jim likes cats) to dogs.
Mohammedan moon worship is clearly a form of demon worship. We know it by its fruits and the fact that they follow like communists, progressives and socialists the father of lies.
@restitutor_orbis
Credit where credit is due, this isn’t “my” theology. If I see far it is only by standing on the shoulders of giants, chief among whom is my father who gave me the capability to see.
OTOH, it is way more complex than can be summarised in a comment. Sons of Aryas have forgotten much of their lore, and even I must reconstruct much that is lost. I intend to make a full series of articles about this, but I’m afraid it must be book-length, for which I have scant time! In other words, the proper thoughts will only form in my mind and I will be granted the opportunity to write them if and when wished by Mother Saraswati, the goddess of learning, eloquence, and music.
He’s half Armenian which is why he is Armenian Orthodox.
This is what he tries to delude himself into believing. But his actions and appetite befit Baphomet. Like a Lion pretending to be a horse lol.
The thing with Old Gods is, you can’t choose which one you want to follow. Your blood calls out for the god, whether “you” want it or not.
Most Aryan Yahwehites don’t understand this, because they learn from an early age to suppress the call of their blood and pay obeisance to Yahweh, who is a Semitic, foreign god. Therefore they are much surprised when they find out that the call of blood gets stronger in others. It is very hard for hot-blooded folks to suppress their blood, which calls for sacrifice to the Old God of their Fathers.
Then who are we supposed to worship? Thor?
Suones is an old type hindu. He thinks we should worship Odin.
But that social technology failed. Worshippers of Odin were defeated by Christianity because their leaders kept murdering each other.
And the social technology of the old type Hindus, when old type Christians entered India, was not a significant improvement on that.
That sounds like it could make some sense, not that I’m any expert.
My main issue with Roosh is that for a man claiming to know so much about the nature of women, life and whatnot, why is he still a bachelor. Like c’mon man, be the change you want to see.
Also he has that curious ‘inability to mention Jim’s name syndrome’, but perhaps that is a namefag thing.
But otherwise I like his content. Funny and thoughtful.
So I check Roosh’s blog right after this comment and whaddya know in his latest post he says the earth is no older than 10,000 years. Off into the deep end, I guess.
There really is something to the notion that those who resist mainstream nonsense are susceptible to weirdstream nonsense. Whenever I open bitchute, I am bombarded with conspiracy theories and it’s not just the feds. Roosh’s 10,000 year old earth fits the same category.
Is that the consensus of the Orthodox Church?
Alf the 1st issue with that is dumb people are more likely to resist propaganda that are obvious lies than status conscious midwits but dumb people beliefs in rejecting demonic lies still remain ignorant and dumb in some ways that just in a way that rejects the lies of the enemy.
Now Roosh is not dumb and hes even smarter than your average midwit shitlib though not a genius… I have to think hes just ODing on the God pill too much. He sees the enemy in all his demonic evil and figures the best way to fight that is going full godpill.
Completely agree.
The solution to be at peace (I mean after realizing the full evil of the enemy) with yourself without believing delusions like 7000 year old earth or something is reconciling yourself that the righteous goal is the COMPLETE EXTERMINATION of the enemy.
When you accept that the only righteous path is the full extermination of all socialists, progressives, communists, feminists and muslims and all other children of the father of lies you no longer need to endorse delusions to be at peace.
Those who willfully rejected truth in such an extreme way are of their father the devil… thou shalt not suffer a leftist to live Deus Vult. The right needs to take the Suharto pill. The mass murder of 10s of millions of leftists is not evil at all it is the most righteous thing in the world.
Give it up man. How many times are you espouse that nonsense? No one here agrees, including Jim.
I think the Shadowed Knight (relucantly) came to agree with me.
If you’re not part of the Final Solution you’re part of the problem :D.
Lets meme it to be sexy
https://ibb.co/N1LTCNq
https://ibb.co/pw9qYr9
Yeah I’m going to kill half my family. I’d rather join Antifa and lead them into your house to piss on your corpse.
Depth squads for every single person complicit in the decline of civilization!!! Except le BASED arch-Vaishya Jeff Bezos who was forced to fund the Washington Post!11
Your family members who supported Biden will cheer loudly when you are taken away and as the purity spiral gets worse (if it gets there) as they themselves are taken away.
What loyalty do you really owe them if they are still a sincere leftist at this point… or are willing to go along with it more than the bare minimum under coercion with threat of immediate consequences (this I can forgive but no more than this). Understand that your leftist family members will pass their own kids through the fire to Moloch. Fuck them.
Jeff Bezos sits atop the golden Vaishya Throne, looking out up on his vast estate, contemplating. He sheds a single tear for Pooch’s family. “Damn it all!” he thinks, “why weren’t they strong enough to fight back against The Cathedral!”
You really make too much of my agnosticism on Bezos. My position is that insofar he is a leftist is that he is possibly under pretty direct coercion.
Bezos would be tried and would be allowed to plead coercion, and that he never wanted political involvement but as he got too big the government took an interest in him. He would potentially win acquittal and potentially not it would depend on the facts of the case.
I suspect he would be convicted of doing something however small on his own initiative in support of the covid lockdowns and be executed for that.
The only tech oligarch I’m pretty sure would be acquitted is Zuckerberg, Zuckerberg can present pretty strong evidence he acted under coercion the whole way based on things that are publically available.
Maybe Zuckerberg could earn his freedom by giving you a predator drone to hunt down all of our families. He could also compile a list of people who expressed negative feelings towards “rapists” and “pedophiles”. Arch Vaishya San Francisco tech CEOs would be a great asset to exterminate blue pilled and purple pilled cucks. We would of course reward them with the finest concubines as well as entire states. Zuckerberg can have California, Bezos can have Washington. Bezos says he is Lizzo’s number one fan. In the Holy Jimian Ethnostate we will have an annual Lizzo concert with mandatory attendance to celebrate the purge of cringe purple pilled cucks.
I do not want to exterminate or harm in any way normies or the purple pilled. That is the basis on which I say Bezos may get acquitted. He can argue he was a rich normie who wanted to be an apolitical online Montgomery Ward but that he was coerced and threatened by glowjoggers. People outside warrior and priestly jobs in particular should not be considered under any obligation to be brave under threat of state coercion (Republican officials who failed us due to cowardice and judges and such are another matter their cowardice SHOULD be punished).
Its leftist in various forms that have to go, as well as people who TOOK INITIATIVE in collaborating with them (rather than following orders under coercion)…
There is no fundamental disconnect in aim between Aristotle and Aquinas’s Christiandom. Aryans seek the Almighty, the creator, the first and infinite. And when they had pantheons of fragmented gods they were unsatisfied with them.
But Islam worships a lesser being, so there is a disconnect between Aristotle and Avicenna and the Islamic world.
Proper Aryans worhsip the infinite, the self existant, that which has made and is. Some other people maintain memories of worshiping the same being, Ancient Israel included. Classical Israel shifted to worshiping a god of legalism and beurocracy, and that is alien to Arians, but it also has nothing to do with Christianity beyond Christ rejecting it.
Bapomet is not such an old god, it had a beginning and it will have an end. It is another god of legalism, and probably the same being as that which modern Jews worship, and the same as those which Judiazed Christians worhsip. That being is alien to Aryans.
Aryans seek that which is, the self-existant God. Thus they are the Christ-bearing race, and they were so even before the incarnation. Aristotle sought that which Aquinas knew.
Cominator mentioning him induced the realization that i’ve not seen theShadowedKnight here in some time.
do we know what’s become of him? i enjoyed his commentary
Mr The Cominator, do you think there are actually tens of millions of leftists that need mowing down?
In terms of folks that actually drive leftism, that actually have volition, perhaps there are hundreds or thousands. But most people just go with whatever their heard does. Arbitrarily killing npcs isn’t useful. They’ll just flip to whatever the new ideology in power is.
Most folks here that have leftkin probably have npcleft kin. I know the branch of my family that is left is functionally apolitical and would be just fine in a society that was not democratic.
“In terms of folks that actually drive leftism, that actually have volition, perhaps there are hundreds or thousands.”
Then can we agree these at least need to go…
My problem with the NPCs is they consciously decided that truth has no value, people like that are going to cause problems eventually. Maybe you could reprogram them sure but then later so can someone else. At least I think the white male leftist NPCs should go so white males can have a sense of asabiyya. I don’t see why any white male who actually voted for Biden (barring immense creative or scientific value) should live…
At the very least they should be driven into exile.
It’s an interesting question how many people would need to be rounded up or otherwise taken out of action to break the back of globohomo.
On the one hand, I have historically tended toward a “big forces align to create bad incentives which bad people take advantage of, but if those, particular bad people weren’t there at the time others would have taken their place” sort of view (e.g. climate scientists have an inherent incentive to be climate alarmists and politicians have an incentive to listen to climate alarmists over those who say no sweeping government action is necessary), as well as a “stupid more than evil” view (e.g. I suspect a lot of the Nancy Pelosis of the world lie to themselves that they are a force for good more than they are consciously aware that they are horrible but are doing it anyway because it’s so rewarding); on the other hand, I find BAP’s claim that there may be e.g. 500 people pulling a lot of the most important strings at any one time, often times the same, small groups of people for decades at a time, convincing, as well as his noticing the suspiciousness of how, with rare exceptions nobody important seems to get targeted for assassination anymore.
I also agree with Jim (or at least, what I think is his opinion on this) that status matters a lot, so while millions may be participating in the bad incentive game, it might not take killing/exiling millions or even tens of thousands to fundamentally shift the milieu if e.g. circumstances should change such that, instead of being perceived as cool and empowering, being leftist instead seems dangerous, low-status, and/or revolting, then the vast majority would simply let their cognitive dissonance rationalize their way into a less left-wing position. Such a shift in circumstances could perhaps be achieved by targeting a relatively small number of the most influential figures in politics, media, academia, etc.
I think I see the difference in out outlooks. I don’t presume NPCs consciously decide very much of anything.
I used the modern mechanistic term, but I don’t like making machines of men too much. I’m going to pivot into Christian theology, those are terms we can both talk on right?
You know the Eastern doctrine of Ancestral Sin? In that doctrine Humans are not just sin-imputed like Augustine said, rather the first sin caused a weakening of will that was passed on intergenerationally, so that man on his own is not strong enough to resist sin.
God in Grace at the point of decision restores our will enough for us to really and truely choose Him freely. If we reject Him we fall back into a corrupt, weak, sin ruled will. If we accept Him we start to regain our true freedom, with His help. But even in accepting Him it’s a long journey to having a truely free will. That’s part of Theosis.
Those who utterly and finally reject God are going to be destroyed one way or another. They will enter into an increasingly destructive cycle of demonism and often that means we have to destroy them before they hurt our people. At that point there is not much difference to then between letting them self-destruct or having us kill them. And if we kill them we save many others suffering. So Aquinas says on the death penalty. If they were going to repent, they would have, we don’t ever need to worry about that. (I’m sure you know all that, I’m just demonstrating that I know it, and am not going to come back with dumb arguments about ‘what if letting them murder 10 more children would have given them time to repent’ or such garbage)
But for most people, their rational soul, their nous, is darkened entirely. They don’t make logical decisions, or choices, or execute acts of their own will for self improvement. The capacity to change ones own script is rare at best, it doesn’t exist at all for most of mankind. They didn’t consciously and ably decide a single thing in their whole lives.
Even the person who accepts Christ or actively seeks the Most High without knowing Christ, they start with a very dim nous indeed. They cannot be expected to get rid of all the evil ideology coded into them overnight or even in just one generation. And even someone like me, my nous is not so bright, I can appriciate the greatness of the saint-kings and desert fathers, but I can only just follow their thoughts enough to appriciate that they are better than me.
We ought to destroy those who create and initially promote demonism, but everyone downstream of them may or may not have ever really decided to be part of it.
*The western Church has this ‘slavery of the will’ concept as well, but it’s not spelled out as concisely as Ancestral Sin. Probably the best read for the Latin church’s idea is the Cannons of the Council of Orange of 529. It deals with Plegianism, and pre-emptively condemns what was much later called Jansenism or Calvinism.
Suones is a Hindu. He does not understand Christian theology.
He adheres to a brand of Hinduism that has very deep Aryan roots, and which worships a very ancient Christophany, but I am not going to pull the Roman and progressive trick and tell people that they are ignorantly worshipping our Gods. He figures the older and more ancient the better, and much truth in that.
He figures we should worship Thor. Hmm, by that reasoning some Hindus should worship Kali rather than Rama. That did not turn out well.
I’m going to think out loud a bit because this is a good place for insightful criticism.
I’d say that following your script isn’t a real decision. Let’s say I want to plan for food, so I look at flyers for the best price on meat I want, and then I go buy that meat. In one sense I decided I need to plan ahead, and I decided between store ABC and store DEF. But really I had the script ‘have extra food on hand’ from my Grandad, and I had the script ‘shop around for the best deal and bulk buy on sale’ from Grandad. Grandad got those scripts as a reaction to scarcity circumstances in his time.
They’re good scripts, but in me they’re handed down and in him they are nessesitates drilled into him by the environment.
Now to me a real decision was made when the lead pioneers said ‘I will create a new home for my people, and we will survive’ that was an act of will and inner strength, and that singular act of will created a lot of the great things we accomplished in the west. Acts of volition like that don’t happen every generation, or even every century.
Now, I knew even when I was young that the ‘buy cheap’ script had a bug in my time. It works great in pioneer towns with a closed economy and a ‘help your neighbors’ ethic. But with open global markets it has serious flaws. Mant good right wing folk, just run the pioneer script and never contemplate it at all.
A major enemy is the folks that stop us from debugging these scripts. Right wing pundits that seem like they should be redpill but always stop short of actually advocating in the interests of our own people, and then they turn and attack white advocates.
Of course the main enemy are those who actively create self-destructive scripts and set them loose on the masses. Call it creating demons or propaganda or whatever you want. Those who use their will to create death-scripts have to be destroyed utterly.
@Jsd
That is a question every man must answer himself. Every woman/NPC, being incapable of answering this, or any, question, must instead worship her/his Lord and Master as a god, and pay obeisance to his gods.
This is the way.
@Tom
Maybe Granddad had it right, and you’re wrong.
I’m sitting in a 5000 year old place and yet your Grandfather’s
scriptwisdom strikes me as sensible while the Jew garbage you call “global markets” is suicide. If it had not been people like your grandfather living among us today, we would have seen untold destruction during last year’s “pandemic.” I literally do exactly as your grandfather recommended, and am much the better for it. Our villages had a bountiful harvest last year (== zero starvation) and are on track for another bounty this year. The only loss suffered by “the economy” was either paper loss[1] (== zero actual loss) or suffered by rootless urbanites who thought, like you, that they could “debug” grandpa’s “script.” Sri Vishnu feeds the birds and the beasts, he will surely feed you, but only if you let Him.[1]: People like me, who follow grandpa, didn’t even suffer paper losses lol. My holdings remained profitable throughout the “pandemic” and beyond.
Suones,
Grandad would have you out of his community and tell you not to look back, and he’s right.
Globalism is a circumstance, debugging is adaptation to change in circumstances. Grandpa said his mom always cut a roast in half before she put it in the oven as a family tradition. Why? Because she had a small oven that only fit that way.
I put whole roasts in the oven. So did he. It’s another way of describing Chestertons fence.
So are you the ‘white guy neopagan who pretends modern esoterica is ancient’ kind of hindu or ‘Dravidian who got white wisdom 5000 years ago and proceeded to inject demons into it ever since’ kind of hindu?
Either way you’re larping at having grandads wisdom, when in fact you’re far from even running his scripts. My Grandad is a Christian Englishman of good Teutonic stock. Either yours is the same and you bring shame to him, or you’re an alien who shares no part in him.
He is part Dravidian, his Dravidian side has been injecting demons into five thousand year old white wisdom, which is why the Hindu Kingdoms were unable to stand against the Muslims and the Christians, and he thinks we should do the same.
Closer to home, the Old Gods of Mexico are now walking this side of the border.
Thanks Jim. I don’t mean to come off overly rude, Ive read lots of suones comments that are insightful. He’s clearly a good regular.
But I don’t make any bones about out-grouping. If I’m crossing lines let me know and I’ll dial it back.
I should have titled my comments better.
I’m interested in talking to The Cominator about NPCs in Christian theology, and just how many actually need killing. I’m not very interested in talking to Hindus about Hinduism, but I’ll throw in my 2c if a Hindu has the wrong idea about Christianity.
Com is right: kill the leftists. Mercy to the guilty is punishment of the innocent. You might not want to kill your family, but they want to and gladly will kill you if given the chance. My mom, now that I am taking a more active role, has come around to repeating what I say and hates hates hates the demon left. My sister is a woke cultist and refuses to listen. Both were pretty standard liberal feminists when I was growing up, but they took different paths. If women can do that, then men have fewer excuses.
When it comes to your people, do unto others as you would have others do unto you. When it comes to the enemy loudly proclaiming himself, do unto him before he can do unto you, and do it as brutally and thoroughly as it takes. Killing all of the sincere leftists in a big, nasty purge/slaughter is exactly what they are planning to do to you. So do it to them first.
Com might go a bit overboard, but its probably better to kill too many than too few. The Inquisition can take over from that point, and we get to live as best we can until our descendants have to deal with the next holiness spiral. Rarely has a civilization died of over-executing heretics. Were too many, or too few puritans executed?
Regarding theology, God wiped Sodom and Gomorrah off the face of the earth, told the Israelites to massacre everyone in Jericho except the woman who help His men and her family, and generally was willing to wipe out all but those repentant and willing to atone as Ninevah did. When we must think how many we must kill, how many God will permit, remember that God made the Nile run red with blood and slew all the firstborn of Egypt for their sins. America’s sins dwarf that of Egypt, and our war may need a far greater bloodletting.
Based and deus vult pilled.
@Tom
Hey no problem. Too bad this “forum” only has limited threading support.
@Others:
Neither. I’m an Aryan[1] who worships his fathers, and his father’s gods, and is grateful for the bounty of Mother Earth and Father Sky. I believe abandoning one’s father and his gods is the first step on the road to destruction, not just of the material kind, but total spiritual obliteration.
I understand that centuries of Semitic poison has destroyed the soul of many sons of Mannus, and unlike Jim who believes this can be reversed and brought back to a more manageable state, I have little hope of this happening — the Semitic gods are simply too jealous.
I understand that “globalism” is societal poison — in commerce as in religion.
I believe in letting Chesterton’s Fences stand until it can be proven that it is harmful to let a partiular one continue to stand.
The Hindu Maratha Empire never fell to Islam. Northern Empires fell due to underestimating Baphomet’s power. India was conquered by the East India Company who were not really doctrinaire Christians, self-segregated themselves, and launched Britain on the path of greatness after London had repudiated Rome.
I do not recommend anyone to do anything.
[1] I’ll only discuss the whole Aryan vs Dravidian debate with others not infected by Cordyceps semiticus.
The East India company versus the Hindu princes was much the same story as King Alfred versus the Vikings and other pagans.
Over the past five thousand years, you have taken too many demons on board.
If God graces us with victory, I think we’ll find that the average white male non-Jewish leftist is going to resemble Scott Alexander. Basically men trying to get by and doing their best to not be called a racist and virtue signaling from time to time (this was my mindset before I became red-pilled), but not all that enthusiastic about eradicating whiteness.
Ultimately, this is high-low vs the middle. Caesar taught us that the elites are going to have to go. Then, inevitably, the question is going to come down to what we do with all this bioleninism.
If you’re not part of the Final Solution you’re part of the problem. Those who signaled woke beyond the bare minimum under compulsion passed their children and their nation through the fire to mooch and took the mark if we get the chance we should show no mercy. They certainly won’t.
The filibuster and some well armed red state populations is the only thing now holding back kulak war level atrocities and its enabled by these spineless people who acceded to demon worship… why the sympathy for these utterly contemptible people who make the world a hellscape if they had any worth they would at least privately oppose the enemy’s evil ideology.
@Pooch
“Scott” is an Ashkenazi Jew. I have no idea if this is a sarcastic post or not.
Didnt realize that.
Alf, I have the same problem with Aidan Mclear and Heartiste. You can see them talking about getting married and having kids one day, but they never do. It’s like theyre trying to woo right wing types by telling them what they want to hear. It seems parasitic to me, or perhaps these men arent even capable of having the things they say they want
Men do want these things.
And in the current environment, it is really hard. And I know full well how hard it is.
Its my opinion that linker is a glower or some other subversive type. Every comment he makes contains some corrosive irony. Nothing he says is constructive or hepful, as far as I’ve seen. Basucally he seems like he’s here to talk shite.
Heartiste, yes, similar thing. On gab the man is filled with so much hatred as well.
As for Aidan, the guy is younger than I am, and I think he already has settled with a woman and looking to start a family.
Roissy’s problem was he adopted the fed inspired religion of wignattism. The wages of wignattism are death.
Why is roissy posting on gab if he hasn’t revived his website? I always assumed the guy went into hiding.
He doesn’t have anything good to say anymore because hes been infected with wignattism.
Wignattism is a form of leftist demon worship and a fed meme its a real tragedy that someone who used to be a great thinker fell for it, you can hate NAMs and echoes without becoming a wignat (you just can’t make it the focus of everything). Wignattism forgets that the real enemy is leftist whites.
I don’t think Roosh’s change was entirely for the better either but its a lot better path than the one Roissy went down.
Roosh’s error is that he fell for the blue pilled reinterpretation of old type Christianity.
To understand what old type Christians meant by whoring, fornication, and adultery, we cannot look at their words, for the meaning of their words has been changed underneath us. We should instead look at what people of that faith who had power and used that language actually did, in order to understand what those words actually meant when the faith was live and in power.
They did not suppress men from having sex with unowned women, or even suppress unowned women from having sex. They suppressed unowned women from being unowned.
I would tell Roosh if I met him personally that Constantinople the new Jersualem of the new Christian Roman Empire was built with a red light district…
I wish you had an opportunity to talk to him personally. Nothing wrong with Orthodox Christianity (well I have minor quibbles that Jerome and Nicholas II are saints, and that they allow for nuns at all as there should be no group of women considered to be holier than wives and mothers) its a good religion with very little demonic subversive influence within it but he is as you say reading its moral principles incorrectly. And in a way that is very wrong for women in the modern era.
The Simpsons of all things got this right, Ned Flanders after being conflicted decided it was okay to sleep with his bad girl actress girlfriend once with the idea she should marry him later realizing he had no chance if he didn’t give her a sample. She of course decided she wanted to go back to party in Hollywood but Ned Flanders did nothing wrong.
@Bilge Pump
Bro, I’m not talking out of two sides of my mouth. I haven’t been in the business of banging an endless parade of chicks since before I started writing. As alf said, I’ve been looking for a wife despite being young and poor and now I’ve found one.
Congrats Aidan! I wish you many healthy children. You indicated before that you had a crew of trustworthy guys who would act as a war band in a collapse situation. Any ideas on how to find good male friends?
Theoretically simple: find manly activities to do, and use them to bond with the men you do them with.
Shooting, combat sports, team sports, dungeons and dragons…
And what will happen if your MATERNAL ancestry is North-African?!
Jesus stresses that sexual immorality is a grave sin.
Taking sexual/marital advice from an incel, lol.
Ye blaspheme, Jesus was a VOLCEL. There is no such thing as an incel cult leader. Even if you believe Jesus was a fraud and hate christianity any semi successful cult leader is going to have all the pussy he wants. Every woman on earth wants to be fucked by a divine being and have a demigod baby.
Jesus primary teaching on the subject seemed to be about Jewish men divorcing their wives so they could marry again. The backdrop was a world where all are men were married and the only sort immorality they were dealing with was abusing divorce for a younger filly.
Yes good point. Although the word fornication seems to be a word created in translation with the creation of KJ Bible, as another commenter mentioned, in keeping with the Jesus’s spirit of the law (and expanded upon by St. Paul), it could be reasonable to argue that sex with women without the intention of ownership is a sin.
By my read, the Bible is actually much more redpilled on sex than current translations and commentators would have us believe.
The term “fornication” appears in the King James Version and means “sexual intercourse outside of marriage.” But fornication was a translation of the Greek “porneia,” meaning “sexual immorality.” And “porneia was a translation of the Hebrew “zanah,” which meant “adultery” and “prostitution,” with the latter associated with temple prostitution especially.
“Adultery,” in turn, includes (a) sex by a man with a married woman, and (b) any sex by a married woman with a man who is not her husband. “Adultery” does not include (a) sex by a single man with an unwed woman, or (b) sex by a married man with an unwed woman.
So with each translation, the term became broader and broader, until today we end up with Christianity that would condemn as sinful the very acts of conquest-and-ownership God commended his Israelites to do.
Conversely, the interpretation above is perfectly in line with Jim’s view on marriage 1.0. The man owned the woman. The fact that I own a car means you can’t drive it. But the fact I own a car doesn’t mean I can’t drive other cars.
I am of the belief that there is no sin in simple sex, unless it is idolatrous, or unless it causes a woman to break her marriage vow. Somewhere along the line (probably Paul’s influence?) things went awry.
Any bible passages you find iffy at all or promote bluepilled morality should be crossed reference with the Young Literal Translation.
Yes! Thank God for that translation. Amen.
Everything in the bible about sex is a commentary, explanation, or clarification of the final commandment:
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.
And nothing in the bible about sex makes sense except in that context.
So: In a social environment where women are unowned and are frustrated by lack of ownership, inapplicable to banging any women you are likely to meet.
Furthermore, the Old Testament does not make clear, but the Lord Jesus Christ does make clear, that the law and the prophets are to be interpreted and applied in such a way that they work, that they accomplish their intended purposes, have the intended effect. The spirit, not the letter.
Incel and female immorality is not the intended effect.
In a society that does not respect or protect ownership of land, a farmer must still grow potatoes, and to do so, has to anarchically and illegally take possession of some land, breaking numerous erratically, unpredictably, and infrequently enforced laws and regulations in the process.
And we must anarchically and illegally take possession of women.
The problem with fornication is not that it’s taking possession of a woman, it’s that it’s failing to take permanent possession of her.
I am interested in your claim that unowned women don’t count. What evidence can you show that anyone besides you took this to be the correct interpretation?
If you wind up together, with the intent and ability to stick it out all the way through, all the actions taken to bring about this outcome are OK.
Reflect on the story of Tamar and Jacob.
Jacob and Tamar begat Perez, of the line of David. Tamar was right to do what she did.
Christians are not forbidden swords. We are merely required to pursue better solutions first. But under current circumstances, better solutions have very limited availability.
And what if there is no intent to stick it out all the way through?
I mean whores. Who from the tradition said or implied that whoring wasn’t immoral?
Obviously whoring is immoral, and the story of Jacob and Tamar tells us that in old Testament times they had a short way with whores.
But equally obviously, they were controlling female sexuality, not male sexuality. The problem was unowned women, not male sexuality.
You need to read old (pre Romance) sources from within their world view, which world view was familial collectivist and took it as completely self evident that women were not men and men were not women.
If you transliterate things people said pre-Romance to read a modern individualist meaning into them, and assume that the people saying those things could not tell the difference between men and women, you get nonsense.
You have to read stuff from before AD 1000 in the context that men and women are different, the household is one person, and that person is the head of the household.
So, in that social context, if you look at someone’s daughter, and think about having sex with her without agreement from the head of her household to transfer her to your household, you are violating the final commandment. If you give the stuff on fornication and adultery some meaning unrelated to the ten commandments you are, like the Jews sneaking, in new commandments to provide justification for burying and abandoning the old commandments.
Vladimir the Great divorced all his wives and disbanded his harem after converting to Christianity. Seems like unowned women did count.
By whoring, I mean men using whores. Do you say that it wasn’t understood as sin? That it wasn’t understood as serious sin? This is what I’m asking for evidence for. It doesn’t need to be spelled out in so many words, but I need something; I can’t simply take your word for it.
Yes, a sin, but what was that sin? The problem that needed to be dealt with was whores, not their customers.
And, as the story of Jacob and Tamar reveals, that was the problem that they dealt with.
The problem is that a whore is a brave and stunning empowered woman. If she has a pimp, he is a cuck. He may beat her from time to time, but he is still a cuck.
To understand what words mean, you have to look at what people did. It is not a matter of reading Church fathers, for the meaning of the words has changed underneath us.
Similarly, the authorities in late eighteenth century, early nineteenth century Australia, did not whip men for screwing women. Neither did they whip women for screwing men. They shotgun married the women off, and whipped them if they spoke back to their husbands. I conjecture they would have also whipped a wife for whoring, or a man for banging someone else’s wife, but it seems that that simply never happened.
They used vigorously moralistic language, and it is obvious that they did not mean by “whore” and “whoring” what you mean by whoring.
To understand what moral words mean, you have to look at what people with power using vigorously moralistic language did.
These people had legitimate authority. They had guns. They had whips. They came from a sternly moralistic society. They used sternly moralistic language.
They were very disturbed by all the sex that was happening.
And it really does not seem to have occurred to them to punish a man for having sex with an unowned woman. Or even to punish an unowned woman for having sex with a man.
What most certainly did occur to them was to punish a woman for resisting ownership, and they vigorously did so.
“What most certainly did occur to them was to punish a woman for resisting ownership, and they vigorously did so.”
Yes instead of moralfagging this is what our ethos needs to be… the problem is not immorality it is that women are high status and unowned.
Moralfagging distorts and obscures the problem.
“By the way, I’m not a Christian or a theologian. How bad exactly does the Bible say “fornication” is? ”
If I am not mistaken, in Catholicism, fornication is a mortal sin which without repentance sends you directly to hell.
Yet strangely, the Roman Catholic Church rolled over and surrendered to the troubadors and the Romance Revolution.
This resembles blue pilled dad of a nine year old girl who enthusiastically proclaims he will shoot pedophiles, a pedophile being someone who receives a naughty selfie from a girl who is seventeen years and nine months old, and due to heavy wear and much rough use, looks twenty four, and yet is strangely blind to his nine year old princess holding unsupervised sleepovers with boys, and who sends her off to party university when she is about to turn eighteen.
The position that the Roman Catholic Church took in response to the Romance crisis utterly discredits its claims to authority on sexual matters. In practical substance and actual effect, the substance of the position was that “love” made it OK for wives to cheat on husbands, and OK for men to sleep with other men’s wives, but not OK for men to keep a mistress.
The Roman Catholic Church has as much authority on sexual matters as does the dad who says he will shoot “pedophiles”, while his seventeen year old daughter is at party university and his nine year old daughter is holding a mixed sex sleepover without supervision by adult male kin.
You’re right about the scandal, but its claims to authority come from an unchanging heaven, and the relevant claims it makes about fornication seem to be unchanging since long before the invention of romance.
But the claims it makes against fornication changed in meaning, and were emptied of important content, when it capitulated to the Romance movement.
In this, they resemble the claims that blue pilled dad makes against “pedophiles”.
Do they come from unchanging heaven?
When Pope Gregory split from Orthodoxy in 1054, his claims came from armies in the field.
You can argue there was bad conduct on both sides in the split, but if the Patriarch of Constantinople was coveting rectories and churches, Pope Leo and Pope Gregory were coveting Kingdoms.
The authority of kings is also from heaven, yet enforced with armies. There is no inherent tension here.
Not all the claims it makes about fornication changed in meaning. I’m not seeing the correspondence you’re implying between what you say and what the church said in the old days.
The pope coveted that which is Caesar’s
Which resulted in conflict within the Church paralleling conflict between nations.
Fornication is not one of the Ten Commandments. Neither is incest, sodomy, nor temple prostitution. [X] not being in one of the ten commandments is a typical excuse of pleasure-lovers, and not a particularly good one.
Fornication is a mortal sin in every serious denomination of Christianity. It is the reason why Christian kings had mistresses instead of concubines.
Vladimir the Great was commanded to and promptly did divorce all his wives and disband his harem after converting to Christianity.
If a Christian sleeps with a woman and afterwards leaves her he has to go to confession for it. The modern variant of the confession service in Orthodoxy used in my church is over a millennia old. In this world of defect-defect, it is pardonable to sleep with a woman with the intention of taming her, but anything else (sluts in bars, “practice whores,” plates, girlfriends, etc.) is not acceptable.
We do not care what the prodigal son does when he falls, but he has to go to confession if he decides to return. The king may have a mistress, but he has to keep her under the rug, away from public view.
Fornication is a particular application of the final commandment.
When you apply those commandments, and read people applying them to sex and family, then unless those people are moderns you need to read them in the social context that the unit of society is the household not the individual, and that men are not women and women are not men.
The prohibition of incest and divorce do not follow directly from the ten commandments, but adultery and fornication does.
And the trouble is that giving fornication a meaning that does not follow from the ten commandments leads directly and immediately to breaking them, as when the Roman Catholic Church before the French Revolution so easily ruled that a marriage was nullified because the woman had not really given consent, or when it encouraged daughters to defy fathers and wives to defy husbands.
This parallels the Jews of the time of Jesus holiness spiraling the law on blood, so that they could wrongfully spill blood, and claim they were acting in accordance with the law of Moses.
And the more that that denomination encourages women to screw around till their womb dries out, the more that denomination proclaims it to be a mortal sin.
If you give the biblical laws on sex and family an interpretation that supposes that men and women are interchangeable, and that families do not exist, only individuals, you are turning them upside down.
I refer to “fornication” as “sex without marriage,” not necessarily “sex before marriage.” It is pardonable for a couple to elope in secret and finalize their marriage after the deed, although it is preferred by the church for a couple to be wed in full view of the congregation before consummation.
Incest and sodomy show that Christian morality is not confined to the ten commandments. And while there is no reason to deny fornication as it relates to the tenth commandment, there is no reason to assume that fornication is a sin limited to the context of the tenth commandment.
The parable of the prodigal son does not lead to feminism and mandatory female consent any more than “there is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female” leads to multiculturalism or homosexual marriage. If fornication is not a sin, why did Vladimir the Great divorce his wives and disband his harem?
The trouble is that this definition fails to acknowledge the existence of families and households, and fails to distinguish between men and women.
The trouble with that definition, is that when applied in a society where women are emancipated, marriage 1.0 is illegal, and family is rapidly becoming illegal, is that it necessarily turns the original meaning (rooted in a society where the unit of society was the household rather than the individual, and where men were not women and women were not men) upside down and back to front.
Our eighteenth century ancestors would, if a nine year old girl attended a sleepover without supervision by adult male kin, have absolutely no doubt that fornication had taken place, and would break out the shotgun and call the pastor to correct the matter.
Unless you are reacting as an eighteenth century gentleman would react, you do not mean by fornication what he meant by fornication.
Our eighteenth century ancestors could correct the matter with a shotgun and a pastor, because it was possible to get a nine year old girl married and marriage actually meant something.
Today we can’t.
How would our eighteenth century ancestors have reacted if there is no pastor and no marriage?
Well, that is the point. If no pastor and no marriage, we have to deal with the situation at hand – rather than by redefining fornication so that everything is just lovely because it is totally God’s will that very large numbers of men should be involuntarily celibate.
Pleasantly surprised to see this take from you
Roosh is reverting to ancient working good social technology with the goal of establishing cooperate/cooperate equilibrium for himself personally and influencing his followers to also do the same, a noble and just cause indeed.
Trouble is, as JIm has preached, cannot simply revert back to a cooperate/cooperate environment. Given present circumstances, one must start in defect/defect and impose cooperate/cooperate by taming a whore.
You’re too hung up about rape those of us here of the Jimian redpill reject the idea that women are all that traumatized by rape. Most women do not exactly want to hit over the head and be rape raped by a stranger in an ally or a home invader (though some DO fantasize about this) who after all might kill them afterwords but women also do not exactly like giving explicit verbal consent with every base. Women don’t like being asked if you can kiss them, touch them, finger them or fuck them they want to make eyes at you in private and have you just do it. If you ask them they will generally get turned off and say no.
Yeah I know. Just trying to illustrate the type of guy that Roosh is. There is something very twisted about going for quantity over quality because when a girl fornicates with a new man she loses something. Doing that hundreds of times, just for the sake of “notches” is insanity. If I was super attractive Casanova stud, I would be looking for quality over quantity, trying to find some 10/10 girlfriend and/or a harem of 8/10 hotties. I would not tear up a 6/10 girl’s hymen while she is black out drunk because I ghosted the 8/10 girl I banged last night rather than calling her back because I wanted more “flags and notches”. And this is observably how super attractive high status men behave. They do not behave like Roosh because they have empathy and because they are more sane; they are not just zealously following some obsession.
I have a controversial take on female notch count that will probably upset everyone.
Women lose something for the 1st three notches sure… after that additional notches don’t make much difference as far as pair bonding. There is not much difference between four and four hundred.
Highly used women can still pair bond sexually… but you need to fuck them way way more and better before they do.
No offense, but you sound like a blue pilled faggot on female nature.
Would you rather fornicate with or marry a female who has taken more cocks or less cocks? Are females more strongly able to pair bond with their husband if they have taken less cocks? Based on your answers to these questions, it is clearly not blue pilled to say that Arab guys racking up hundreds of notches, including deflowering virgins, not even for their own amusement, but just as a pathological obsession, is bad for society. Even worse than that is that they then turn around and psy op white men into not fornicating or reproducing, then shame anyone who disagrees with this as being “unholy”. I don’t think pickup artists should be sent to the gulag (although Roosh probably thinks this now!), but just pointing out the undesirability and the hypocrisy of Roosh’s behavior is not being blue pilled or simping for whores or whatever you are gonna straw man me as saying. Maybe it was wrong to call him a dirty muslim psychopath rapist, but that was just dramatic embellishment and hyperbole to get my point across, which apparently I am failing to do.
I’d rather fuck and marry a woman than not at all. Look around, there is a massive virgin shortage. Not going to find one given present circumstances so must make do with what we have which means taming and marrying a whore. As Jim has often told, the story of 18th century Australia shows it was done and can be done.
Female notch count matters up to three because her ability to pair bond sexually (and maintain some degree of what passes to a woman as genuine loyalty to you) becomes damaged when it goes higher . But if you are not at least a woman’s third it doesn’t matter much if you are her four hundredth.
I don’t think Roosh and co had too too many virginial or semi virginal types.
No he wasn’t. He was sitting pool side fucking whores enjoying the decline than realized it was not a fulfilling way to live (I also came to the same conclusion which is why I identify with him).
enjoying the decline in a perpetual state of decline/decline, I should say.
But please, if I didn’t address your concern, elaborate on your strawman about how specifically I am blue pilled about females. You are leaving me guessing here. I’m going to be really astounded if you think Bezos is a politically neutral arch-Vaishya and Roosh is helping impressionable young white men by giving them Holy Commands to be celibate.
You do not seem to understand what we are saying about Roosh or Bezos.
We are criticizing Roosh on the grounds that the overall goal he is preaching to men and society is laudable… but in clownworld the fact is that men need to fuck a girl before they can court her (and that even if she is a good trad church girl that will not change as female instinct is going to overpower her religious scruples every time) and that means using his old pickup methods for a more noble purpose.
You sounded bluepilled because as I said you seemed overly concerned about rape in a way that ignores female nature where women like to feel dominated and overpowered during sex (Roosh did not hit women over the head and actually rape them in alleys). You are right that at a certain point a man prefers quality over quantity though.
AWALT.
I don’t believe in hard AWALTs as much as some here do but when it comes to women’s sexual instincts AWALT is a good model. Female sexual instinct and especially arousal is designed to overpower and shut down female rational thought (such as female rational thought is in any case). This means their religious scruples are never going to matter in regards to how they act sexually… it might leave them feeling more remorse if the sex was bad or rationalizing that the fact that they sinned and fornicated was God’s will as God prompted them to give into the weakness of her flesh and sin in this case because Jesus wanted to bring her together with you or something. This is why you have to bang the religious trad girl too.
The only exception to this sexual AWALT is a woman that is genuinely sexually frigid (or so selective she is only capable of being aroused at the thought of general Butt Naked raping her) neither of which you want to marry you are better off trying to marry a stripper with a 500 notch count then a frigid woman.
in clownworld the fact is that men need to fuck a girl before they can court her
I am aware that a lot may have changed since then, but I have much firsthand and even more secondhand knowledge that this was not the case as recently as fifteen years ago.
Definitely the case in the age of Tinder.
“Most women do not exactly want to hit over the head and be rape raped by a stranger in an ally or a home invader”
stop being such a leftist. they do.
Old-type Orthodox Christian here.
Accusing Roosh of judging fornicators is projection. One of the first things taught in the Orthodox Church is the Jesus Prayer; we do not judge our brother like the Pharisee but focus on only our own sins. Roosh does not care if you decide to read his advice and screw 200 white girls, he thinks that fornicating is wrong.
Fornication is the sin of the prodigal son, which is recounted on the second Sunday of pre-Lent. Sex with women without the intention of ownership is evil and is condemned in this service. God commands us to own women, not to defile ourselves in defect-defect.
Roosh is not trying to proscribe celibacy to his readers, he is telling them to flee defect-defect and find a wife in the church. The irony of his plan is that his readers end up marrying women in their late 20s early 30s who are trying to settle down, normative in most parishes.
So Roosh is right in that what he has done is evil, and given that his game did not land him a wife or family it would be understandable for him to forego game and proscribe his other plan.
The first problem with Roosh is that to break defect-defect, it requires a man who is willing to break multiple laws. If a father wishes to give his trad waifu daughter to a man in a morally Christian manner, he must break the law, and it is difficult to break the law without being redpilled.
The second problem with Roosh is that marrying a woman on her terms means most likely marrying a older woman with a high notch count. That being said, Jacob Rees-Mogg married a 30 year old and his traditional marriage turned out well.
My advice for a man would be to learn game to tame a young whore. If you can’t or won’t, marrying an older woman with a high notch count and having two or three children is better than being childless. If you wish to cheat and marry an underage virgin, I light a candle for you and wish you all the luck in the world.
I agree that Roosh became unfulfilled with meaningless, ownershipless, sex. I do not see him advocating for superior social technology though. I see him shaming men, advocating Victorianism, and advocating celibacy, not literally, but under the guise of “waiting for a pure perfect Christian woman who does not require game, who you will court asexually and get married before having sex with”. In my opinion that pious Victorian behavior will lead impressionable white men to celibacy.
It is superior social technology if imposed on society by the state, that every tax-paying man gets provided with a virgin wife. However in today’s circumstances your criticism is entirely valid.
Perusing his twitter. He is also a crypto-marxist. He expresses hatred for capitalism and “usury”, which is absolutely retarded.. He is basically a crytpo-leftist.
Roosh’s political position: The sexual market is messed up because of male lust. The financial market is messed up because it is too unregulated and capitalism is inherently bad. When the government takes outrageous taxes from a productive white man and then gives free money (“loans” or “usury”) to bums, the bums who received money are the True Victims Who We Must Feel Pity For. This is the fault of capitalism. We must have a more larger and more powerful churchian government to prevent men from using game, to prevent women from being beautiful and wearing sexy clothes, and to restrain capitalism more so that bums do not get their feelings hurt.
Roosh is not a strong right wing advocate. He is a status-hungry holiness spiraling priest. He does not want apple carts to stay upright. He wants to knock down the same apple carts, but with Muslim aesthetics and obfuscation.
> Capitalism has condemned more souls than any other system in history. Material riches = spiritual poverty.
> Capitalism is state-sponsored usury, an ideological vehicle that allows a few oligarchs to control and dominate billions of people. Usury is a sin.
Responding to a graph showing that the percent of sexless men has risen from 7% to 27% since 1989:
> Best news I’ve seen all month.
> Don’t fear poverty.
Usury is a problem but he incorrectly attributes capitalism to what we have now, which is not capitalism.
My biggest issue with him, though, is that he has Jews on the brain. As alf said, his writing is thoughtful and funny and I enjoy his content. Though, he does not quite understand the nuisances of what’s happening like Jim does (not many people do). BAP suffers from this too, but I view them both as major assets to the Right.
BAP doesn’t have jews on the brain (and I’ve been in contact with him on and off for twenty years) the worst that can be said about BAP is he thinks the NDSAP a lot of the SS guys had their hearts in the right place (he doesn’t think they were right about everything though)…
BAP rejects the Puritan hypothesis and thus NRx. He blames all our current problems on the Jews.
I don’t entirely accept the puritan hypothesis and have said so.
BAP’s thinking on the subject cannot be summed up so simply, BAP is a very smart guy and his thoughts on the subject are complex. He agrees (as does Jim and even Moldbug) that in certain eras (the very late 1800s to the mid 30s) the left was indeed very jewish. He does not think it was the case today or the case earlier in the Victorian era.
One of his recent podcasts I forget which one he explicitly stated our current leftism is entirely Jewish and can be traced to Marx. He also explicitly rejected Moldbug’s Puritan hypothesis and called it bullshit.
I enjoy his alot of commentaries but it can come off as glorified Nazi-larping to be honest.
at times*
BAP believes the REAL spiritual heart of the modern left originated (and I agree with him) not with a jew or a puritan or any group of them but in the writings of Jean Jaques Rosseau. That Rosseau’s writings more than any pre Marxian christian socialists (who go back to before Calvin there was a great Christian socialist element to the 14th century Jaquerie revolts) begat the age of revolutions in Europe and that the Jewish and ex Puritan socialists even the hardcore communists were mostly bastard offspring of Rosseau their spiritual father.
The reason is that Rosseau gave rise to the one common thread of all leftists movements since, that man is infinitely malleable and has also been infinitely corrupted (he was an originally amiable but mostly solitary herbivore much like the Orangatuang). Now the left wants to use this infinite malleability but NOT to restore man to his original good natured Orangtuang ness… but to make him some kind of ant creature. And Rosseau wanted this.
Rosseau’s philosophy goes from demonic lies to demonic objectives… just like all the left.
The French left is descended through heretical entryism into the French Catholic Church starting from the false Popes of Avignon. While Rousseau is concentrated essence of that evil, focusing on him distracts us from what the war in the Vendee and the war in Spain was fought over.
Can you explain in more detail…
The Vendee was after the French revolution a revolution spawned at least partially from Rosseauian memes. The avignon papacy was for instance the French monarchy trying to get control over the Catholic Church which became overmighty and tried to enact international priestly rule which peaked during the papacy of Innocent III and I fail to see what it has to do with the age of revolutions which began with the French revolution and began again in the mid 1800s from similar Rosseauian memes. Rosseau’s memes also contributed to the jewish Marxist memes and somewhat puritan Fabian socialist memes.
imo BAP is a genius. He is the only person gatekeeping, crypto-feminists, crypto-marxists, and other forms of slave moralists hard. He understands that capitalism is good for the white man and that women on twitter nagging about pornography are not “the real traditionalists”. My only beef with him is that he seems to have ‘inability to mention Alex Kierkegaard’s name syndrome’. I’m not saying he plagiarized him, but it’s hard to believe he has never heard of him. I haven’t noticed BAP having Jewbrain syndrome, but maybe he does.
He doesn’t I’ve known him online for almost 20 years and he is a borderline genius IMHO.
BAP is prone to taking a semi apologetic view for the NDSAP (and this is one of my few real points of disagreement with him) but he is not a jew obsessive.
Hitler did nothing wrong. Sieg Heil! 1488 卐
Over here we’re proud of Uncle Adolf, his autobiography is the perennial bestseller (so much that the lugenpresse deletes it from the sales charts haha). I’ll discuss any alleged shortcomings of the glorious NSDAP might have had when the Left agrees to stop fetishising bastards like Lenin, Woodrow Wilson, or FDR.
basiert und rot gepillt
Check out the video of a youtuber called “TIK” on how national socialism is socialism and thoroughly leftist on everything but race and get back to me. He devotes 5 hours to this with an copious variety of primary sources.
@TheCominator
You completely missed my point. Whatever the shortcomings of the NSDAP, fact is they beat Commie thugs in the street and sent their leaders to jail or the gallows. NSDAP has a long, long history before coming to power, and even after coming into power the command economy years[1] were an exception rather than the rule.
You seem to have no idea how Marxist extortion rackets are run, probably because these things do not happen in USA (at least not any more). In areas where we have live Marxist insurgencies, Commie thugs come to your shop to ask for their weekly “donations.” If you refuse you can be beaten up, dragged to a “People’s Court” and humiliated, and your shop attacked. This was the lot of the shopkeeper in Weimar Germany, and was supported by the USSR J-Left and their American sponsors.
The Weimar shopkeeper had to pay up, or else… The NSDAP offered an escape. The shopkeeper could instead pay his friendly neighbourhood NSDAP chapter a visit, get his membership and hang a swastika in his window. The next time the Commies came a-calling, they would get a sound thrashing by a couple of brownshirts. If then your shop “co-incidentally” got firebombed, the next day the Commie office on the corner “mysteriously” burned to the ground. NSDAP did this successfully for years, before they came to be widely seen as the only protection from the J-Left, and got endorsements from business big and small (IG Farben, Daimler, Krupp right to the grocery store across the street all hung swastikas in their window).
When Libertardians can prevent the J-Left (or now, more commonly, Prog Left via blacks, Mexicans, etc) from looting a small TV shop, then they get to lecture about the evils of National SoCiaLiSm.
The only alternatives in Weimar Germany were: Judeo-Bolshevism, Fabian-Socialism/Menshevism, or National Socialism. Both of the first two guaranteed death for German kulaks, the first by the bullet and the second by starvation. I feel that Hitler not going all the way and assuming crown and sceptre was a factor in his psychotic breakdown — you can only lead to win if you yourself 100% believe in your Divine Mandate, which Hitler resisted because he himself identified with “the common man.” The sin of the NSDAP lay in their covetousness, which is a much, much minor inconvenience than death.
Anyway, I only discuss such matters in this here place because I assume (thanks to the Rooster Prophet’s effective moderation) we are all on the same side (or will be) in the coming storm. To any Leftists/Left-aligned bastards I simply give the reply I posted earlier. First disown Woodrow Wilson then we can talk about Uncle Adolf. Hail Victory! Jaya He![2]
[1] which, as we discussed before, was only accepted by Hitler because it promised a faster military buildup, which he desperately wanted.
[2] Fun fact: The Indian National Anthem written by Rabindranath Tagore (Kshatriya — hereditary warrior) is so nakedly Imperialistic that it was only adopted in abridged form. Jaye He! is the concluding exhortation — “Victory (to the Supreme King)!”
@suones
Exactly.
The old NASDAP delivered on its protection. When a man asked the question, “what’s in it for me?” the old NASDAP answered and took action on his behalf.
I yet to see anything here in the American empire answering my question, “what’s in it for me?” or actually doing anything about it.
SA thugs before the Roehm Putsch did that too in areas they controlled and after Hitler became Chancellor in all urban and semi urban areas of Germany.
Yes the Nazis gained support by being the only armed opposition to commies thugs but I’m mainly discussing the actions of the Nazis in power and the ideology of Hitler himself. It is perhaps true that only a form of nationalist leftism light can muster the violence needed to counter other forms of leftism (I think BAP thinks this)… rightist do not seem good at extralegal thuggery without state backing. Still I would prefer the right gets a prophet… with a faith militant of a faith opposed to the left we can beat them without adopting a heretical form of leftism.
But nothing positive could have come from Hitler’s Germany. If the state were taken over by Goering or Heydrich perhaps National Socialism would have become militant German National Capitalism (under Goering perhaps under Heydrich almost certainly) but under Hitler that would never happen Hitler was a socialist not exactly a Marxist socialist but a sincere and actually pretty fanatical socialist nevertheless. Hitler was okay with an incremental and piecemeal approach to the form of socialism he wanted… but he was resolved to get there. The war was launched when it did to avoid an economic collapse.
Also to the extent you can say NSDAP violence was right wing violence you have to understand the context they were operating in (and Moldbug went over this in the Open Letter). The Weimar republic was a former monarchy and the judiciary and the “Cathedral” in Weimar was fundamentally reactionary and they hated the communists (even if the parliament was generally social democrat, and the social democrats had to admit there were enemies to the left with the Spartacist uprising). This allowed the Nazis to get the advantage in right wing street violence.
@Cominator
Ok Cominator, what’s in it for me?
Despite being the most prolific commentator here, nothing you’ve said has been useful to me, except for calling out COVID as the hoax it clearly is.
You don’t have to engage if you don’t want to.
Useful information for people personally…
Out of the money covered call options on MARA a crypto miner can make you around 20%ish on your money in 45 days also as the dollar declines the stock goes up (in a VERY volatile way). Also when there are big drops (as there was yesterday) you can cover your options and wait a couple days for the bounceback and do it again…
If you are a gameless sperg (like me) living the incel life I also gave a detailed posts on how even people such as us can bang hot strippers… not totally for free but far less than you’ll pay escorts. You are certainly being somewhat autistic lately… R7 I like you and we are all unhappy with how almost everything in 2020 went but your chimpout should end.
What useful information do you want from me… I agree with Jim on general principles of useful things to do. Don’t have obvious valuable property in the US, flee the country if you can try to hide your assets etc.
@Cominator
What 2020 taught me is no one can be trusted, especially people who keep saying “trust the failures” (Giuliani).
And once again, another useless strings of words from you.
If you are a gameless sperg (like me)
Don’t put yourself down. Being a “sperg” may or may not be changeable; I don’t know.
But being gameless is certainly changeable.
Faking it until you make it– works. Faking it long enough shifts your mental state.
You sound defeatist. I hope I am wrong. You are someone who knows the way things really work, as opposed to swallowing the lies of clown world. No reason to be defeatist.
” When our party had only seven men, it already had two principles. First, it wanted to be a party with a true ideology. And second, it wanted to be the one and only power in Germany. ”
Hitler will tell you what his belief system was himself, which was above all the triumph of the will; that power comes to those with a will towards it, everything else negotiable as pragmatic.
I lack the social intelligence I would say to fake being a dangerous and violent man without either being unconvincing or actually getting arrested or killed. I’m defeatist when it comes to American women (who aren’t strippers) its too hard for someone with serious deficiencies in social intelligence and without a genuine criminal background to compete for the small % of nonfat non lesbian larper American women.
Roosh before his conversion went through a period where he talked about how hard game with American women had become… also meeting American women in the wild you actually like is increasingly rare. Too many fat ones and dike larpers…
The bad thing about doing my stripper thing is you just lose almost all desire to go back as far as American women go, its not free but its not that expensive if you play it right (and you can convert it to a relationship should you dare eventually if you can manage to fuck them good but there are risks). Their personalities often also aren’t really all that bad, and they are no woke strippers (all strippers are “racists” including the black and hispanic ones). Most strippers think the idea of women running the world is a horrible idea. Strippers have the NATURAL vices and deficiencies of unowned women (self destructive pleasure seeking behaviour, ill advised sex that just happens)… not feminist grotesqueries of natural female vices (no stripper will ever deliberately get fat in the same manner that a normal woman would feel a compulsion to change her hairstyle). In clown world plenty of them are psychologically LESS twisted than the average woman.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lou_Pai
Lou Pai the autistic Chinese nerd did nothing wrong…
Then do what Roosh did. Head off somewhere the women are slimmer and you get opportunities to practice game.
In America, you are not going to get any opportunities to practice game unless you have a good wingman, and preferably an entire entourage. And a wingman helps mightily anywhere.
You are a smart man. Social skill requires practice and is mightily helped by understanding and analysis of what is going on. From time to time your instincts will jump up and take over the wheel. Let them, they are usually smarter than you are, since they have billions of years of experience and you do not. Afterwards, analyze why you reacted as you did, and why you have those instincts.
Roosh is likely more of sperg and a nerd than you, Com. This is why he had to develop a finely tuned system in order to get laid. It did not come natural to him. Guys who have natural game don’t dedicate their life to learning game and write about it.
Lift weights and get fit. Then get on the apps. It doesn’t take much to be a top 20% man in today’s age of beta faggy soyboys. Go on dates and practice in the field. I’ve been on 100s of dates and probably have had 1000s of rejections. Anyone in experienced in game will tell you the same. Like any skill it takes dedication to the craft and hours and hours of practice until it becomes 2nd nature and eventually it does.
Apps work, because ninety nine percent of your competition (and one hundred percent of the chicks) do not know what the chicks are looking for.
All the covid crap makes travel difficult… when i do it mow given the situation it will likely be the idea of going to Asia permanently.
@Pseudo-Chrysostom
Unfortunately, Hitler met the limits of his will soon enough. GNON called out for him to assume his destiny as God Emperor, but he shrank back from it, sure that he was just another Common Man (a delusion he got when he was down and out in Wien). The trouble with Triumphing based on Will is that “Will” is a fickle whore who gives galactic shit tests that you have to pass or be destroyed. The trouble with Fuhrerprinzip is understanding that it doesn’t stop at the Fuhrer, but extends all the way to GNON. Hitler failed at both, but it was a GLORIOUS failure that any of us would have to be born a thousand times to even approach.
@TheCominator
None of what the Nazis needed is applicable to us. The NSDAP had an excellent street fighting force and arguably the world’s best Army, and was only in need of a better State Religion than cucked Christianity. *We* have the reverse problem: too many priests and too few warriors.
The need for a good faith militant is when you actually have an Army, or at least a militia, and a Prophet is less direly needed than a General who will become King after victory. I am a priest at heart, but I learn War so that my sons don’t have to. Become a Paladin.
As for State support, the State is degenerate and ineffectual. It has zero chance against us. Our challenge is to figure out a way to convert marginal tactical victories into total strategic victory. This circle was only squared in the last century by Mussolini, which method was eagerly copied by Hitler.
Nazi Germany’s state religion was Hitler worship (or if you want to put it more moderately at least the Nazis own form of pseudo Marxism with Hitler having a cult of personality) not Christianity and Hitler loathed Christianity privately (read the Table Talks) though he didn’t plan to go after it too much until after the war.
Hitler’s problem was that he was very very close to a Marxist, his initial economic policy for the 1st two years wasn’t so bad (when he let Schadt run things) but he began putting the socialism in National Socialism after that. Also Hitler’s 1st two years were devoted to somewhat winning over the higher officers of the army who tended to be old monarchist right wing types.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCkyWBPaTC8
“Apps work”
they do? where can i read more about this?
Red pill subreddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/
Suones, have you read liberty or equality by kuehnelt-leddihn (my apologies if that was misspelled)? He devotes much of the book to the idea that the NSDAP was democratic at its core. By this view it would have been impossible for hitler to become a king. What say ye?
The good von was a clearer seeing liberal, but he was also a liberal; and he would tell you this himself too.
The closer they get to ‘heresy’ in terms of their religion, the more they talk about how the anathematic figures of their religion are actually ‘no true heretics’ – that their stated reasons for disliking all the right people may be different, as long as they’re still signaling dislike for the right people.
He’s not obsessive but he has said that our current year leftism is entirely Jewish and can be traced to Marx.
Moldbug deserves credit for pointing out the Puritan origins of Progressivism, but he gives Jews far too much credit. Judeo-Bolshevism is not a spent force yet, and is dominant in the US Left. Prog Left is an ascendant force, but not completely dominant.
Of course, Moldbug instinctively covers for his tribe, and BAP for his own, but both are right to some degree. For example, the entire system of Affirmative Action/Reservation is of Jewish origin, created to benefit Jews, and sustained by them. The same with unlimited immigration, “civil rights,” you name it, all Jewish, in USA as in South Africa or Rhodesia. To pretend that “trannerism” is a bigger problem than immigration or even feminism is either retarded or devious, and both of the latter are Jewish projects, regardless of Moldbug.
Progressivism appears to have Quaker origins, as Scott Siskind pointed out – is it wrong?
Kevin MacDonald describes the Puritans as a proto-Anglo race-nationalists, destroyed by the American Revolution – is it wrong?
Jewish power is certainly real, but it’s focused on preserving the Jews first, only incidentally on crushing the goys, which is why they want all the things you mention specifically. They want to fragment society into lots of minorities so that they, a minority by design, do not suffer the disadvantages of being a minority in relative terms.
You can see this in Moldbug’s essay on Siskind’s reinvention of Naziism, in which he says yeah saving the goys might be nice or whatever, but it has a small chance of hurting us, so maybe best not to do it.
Whereas Anglo power in, for example, reconstruction, was very much focused on crushing the Anglos, as was French power in Haiti.
Female emancipation is the biggest problem which came about long before the Jews arrived.
https://blog.reaction.la/culture/forget-about-cultural-marxism/
@The Original OC
Hey, is it cool to use Scott’s “real” name now? 😆
It’s not wrong, but it is not the complete truth. Like Moldbug, Scott instinctively covers for his tribe. One Jew commenting on another Jew’s mutilation of an Aryan movement.
I do not care for the “reasons” given by Semitic apologists for trying to crush us. It is all pilpul.
This is imputing rational motives to the demonic impulses of Jews. If they were completely rational, they wouldn’t be engaged in trying to destroy Israel itself. In fact, since it is verboten for anyone of consequence to so much as wink at Israel, the chief enemies of Israel are other Jews. Zionists are engaged in an existential struggle, with Jews. Jim believes that Zion under King David will fix a lot of Jewish problems, and I tend to agree with that, but it is only hypothetical at this point.
We do not generally agree with wignat memes leftist jews are a big problem but leftism is not a Jewish ethnic conspiracy. Please cut this bullshit.
Leftism is not a Jewish ethnic conspiracy, but Jews play a substantial role (which role is being diminished by dot Indians) and a lot of the madness of the left is Jewish madness, which appears in other forms among non progressive Jews.
So on the one hand, we need to sit on people who say that there is nothing but a Jewish problem, and on the other hand, we have to acknowledge that there really is a Jewish problem.
The big problem, however is the woman problem, and it is not the Jews that gave us that problem.
I totally blame Jews for the banking and fiat money problems, and in the documents I am preparing cheerfully use the terms “Jewish Banking”, “Christian Banking”, and “Islamic Banking”, because that is what they are.
If we successfully address the problem of Jewish Banking, that will make us rich, but it will not give us grandchildren.
The time of the jewish left is in its twilight, even for those who don’t consider them white they look too white for woke pieties and reform jews don’t have jewish children generally.
Saying that Jews are crushing us is as ridiculous as saying blacks or women are crushing us. Traitorous whites are crushing us and that allows blacks and Jews and women to cause mayhem as a proxy for traitorous whites. Without traitorous white men, Jews would be powerless merchants, women would be in the kitchen and black people would be deported or relegated to ghettos where they cannot collect welfare or attack white people. White males are 1000x stronger than all of those groups combined so it would be trivial to do all of that without white male defectors.
suones has no empathy for the Jews but in my opinion, Jews are acting with great honor. The white race is defecting on itself, and it has a history of defecting on Jews undeservedly (Holocaust) rather than to expel their own defectors. White people in their current state are insane, not agreement capable, and randomly lashing out at each other, at Jews, at China, at Russia, etc.
From this game theory perspective you can see the Jews are doing the RATIONAL and VIRTUOUS thing by protecting their own and trying to destroy and enslave the goyim. Jews are like the master race. They are like white people but smarter and not race traitors to their own kind.
@Pooch
That article is about avoiding an exclusive focus on “Cultural Marxism.” I believe it is targeted at “whites-only” socialists who find, in Jews, a convenient excuse for upsetting a lot of applecarts. Not Soros, of course, but the local pawn-shop owner.
Moldbug and Siskind, OTOH, completely dismiss any Judaic involvement in any destruction at all, which is the other extreme. Cultural Marxism has been a major problem in USA since WWII, not the only problem, but a major one, and has been exported across the world. CM is quite transparently a descendent of Marxism, which is an offshoot of Judaism.
Today, while the Prog Left can be considered as the Bioleninist descendent of Puritanism, the so-called “Establishment” Left (Chomsky, Schumer, Pelosi) is resolutely Marxist, and has slightly more power than the former, though declining.
Not focussing autistically on “tHe JeWs” does not mean completely ignoring Jewish leadership and perpetration of various revolutions arond the world, and continued Jewish support for Leftism. Jim commented somewhere that ~80% of Jews voted against Trump, and this was with him trying every trick in the Talmud to appease them, including giving his daughter.
Jews are not acting as an ethnic conspiracy to establish themselves as a ruling class though your post does make a good point that things would probably be better if they were.
Does Scott Alexander have ANY value besides as a cautionary tale? I skimmed his blog and there was one mildly interesting article about amphetamines. Otherwise he seems like a midwitted eunuch and a toady for the deep state. Even the amphetamine article was not red pilled, it was just talking about which is the best to prescribe without even challenging the concept of why psychiatrists need to prescribe them. He behaves as if psychiatrists are actual experts and not credentialed hyper predators that ruin people’s lives.
Scott is not a midwit. Scott is an extremely smart guy who applies ninety percent of his massive brainpower to making himself stupid, and finding amazing clever ways to inflict harm on himself and everyone around him.
As leftism gets stupider and stupider and more and more evil, he finds ever more clever ways to rationalize it.
In the Kathy Forth shenanigans part of him could see what was happening, and talked about it in code, which code I could read, but he could not. The sane part of his mind was locked in a closet and chained to the wall, and telling us in code about what was going on, while hiding the messages not only from the commissars, but from Scott himself.
@jim
This is because we’re the only Aryan tribe who can see the role played by ageing Jew Brahmins, and we take to it. Others, like Cominator (or a past commenter, Not Tom), seem to have crimestop whenever Jewish leadership and/or complicity in major crimes of leftism comes up. Really, the declining Jewish power means a vacuum is created, and Anglos should be eagerly filling it, but then they would have to admit to themselves that Jewish power exists in the first place, so they do not.
Oh, and Marxism, the bedrock of J-Left, is certainly an offshoot of Judaism in the same way as Prog-Left is a Christian heresy.
Marx, sitting in the British library, read up on the Christian heresy suppressed by Cromwell, and proceeded to do the same thing with Judaism in place of Christianity.
Marxism is Judaism transliterated to a pretense of science and materialism, but Marx was inspired in substantial part by what the Diggers did to Christianity before Cromwell stomped hard on them. The pseudo scientific pseudo materialism is Marx’s own, but the proletarian identity is the digger identity.
And once the Soviet Union fell, Cultural Marxism is Marxism that accommodates modern progressivism, so there was cross fertilization both in the original source, and in today’s destination, with a Jew originating, and Jews bringing it back into Puritan derived progressivism as cultural, rather than economic, Marxism.
Interestingly, something like 40% of Jews in Florida voted for Trump.
Puritans had a handle on the WC, and their women were fruitful.
In principle, Puritans were open to the world, but did not evangelise, and married within and among geographically close Puritan families, much like the Amish.
It was Quakers who wanted to ask women three times to consent, and then ask the community to consent to the consent, and invite the world to join them (although they eventually moved the Scots-Irish into upstate Pennsylvania). The Quakers were sterile and died out, but their evangelism did not die out, and their immigration-evangelism exploded because of the uniquely favourable geography.
It is Quakerism, not Puritanism, with which we now contend. Quakerism converted formerly Puritan New England two hundred year later, just as the high church Anglican South was converted after the Civil War to demotic low-church Evangelicalism, and low-church Evangelicalism is now being converted to Quakerism.
Nuts,
I don’t recognize these Puritans you describe.
Puritanism was always a state religion which imposed it’s faith by war and state power, beheading a king in the process.
Puritanism attacked marriage and the family, abolishing the sacrament of marriage, suppressing Church weddings in favor of state weddings which treated men and women exactly alike, abolished Christmas and introduced divorce.
When Charles the second turned the clock back and purged the Church of England, many of those purges fled to America, where they founded Harvard, which was the Vatican of Puritanism.
The distinguishing feature of Puritanism is rule by priests. State power and evangelism by conquest.
You are right about all of that.
Puritans seized power in England in a military coup in the 1640s, and when that failed they moved to the United States. But they weren’t the only ones, and the American Revolution was carried on one century later by people who were not Puritans, who did not dress as Puritans, who did not disproportionately come from New England, and who had not gone to Harvard.
John Adams was from New England and went to Harvard, but was a Congregationalist, not a Puritan. George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were both Virginia Anglicans who attended William & Mary (Washington to be licensed for a trade). Puritanism had not and did not take over America in a military coup, as it very openly and viscerally had done in England in the 1640s.
Modern America, and the empire it rules, is not puritan. The Warsaw Pact was noticeably Puritan, outlawing American fashions on Puritan grounds, promoting clean living and bodily health in the notoriously alcoholic Russians, and so forth. Modern American lifestyle is sensuality combined with an insistence on momentary consent on all things, a consent that *begins* with those involved, and widens, where allowed, to require consent of the whole community. This is the Quaker formula, a formula that conquered through the education system rather than through military means.
The Puritans mismanaged England, but they did not fail to breed in New England until their power was broken and they were subordinated to the national government. At one time, Puritan New England had been like Mormon Utah in the later 19th century.
Puritanism, like communism, keeps renaming itself to get rid of the bad name it acquired in power,
Congregationalism was Puritanism, renamed. One of an endless succession of renamings,
The State Churches of the Colonies that started the revolution were Puritan Churches no matter what they called themselves.
The Puritans changed their name as often as their trousers, while the renamed church would continue from the same buildings with the same personnel.
The New England educational system was explicitly and overtly run by the state Church, which explicitly claimed to be Christian, more Christian than thou, all the way to 1950.
At what date do you draw the line and say “on that date Puritans lost power”
What happened on that date?
If your goal is robbing others, emancipating women is an obvious tactic, since it weakens men (and in the long run, women), making them easier to rob.
@The Original OC
Generally on the right track but not quite correct in the details.
“From eastern Maine to southern Connecticut, the Puritan churches — now termed Congregationalist — lined up on the patriot side, urging their members to resist” i.e., take up The Revolution. American Nations: A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America by Colin Woodward, p. 119.
Chapter 4, “Founding Yankeedom,” details the holiness spiral of the Puritans, who “came to the New World not to re-create rural English life but rather to build a completely new society: an applied religious utopia, a Protestant theocracy based on the teachings of John Calvin.” Ibid, p. 57.
“Yankeedom was first to rebel [against British rule]…. The nation with the greatest religious and ethnic cohesion, national self-awareness, and commitment to self-governance, Yankees were willing to fight and die to preserve ‘the New England Way.'” Ibid, p. 119.
The problem with the puritan hypothesis is in the post civil era when the radical Republicans lost the postwar power struggle and lost it BADLY they only won with Wilson who considered himself a southern fabian progressive and only in alliance with ethnic leftists, papists and jews. So the post puritans were only part of this coalition and the common thread of all these leftist philosophies were that they were inspired in some part by Rousseau.
Communists always form a United front, and when the front gets power, the rest of the front is devoured.
The puritan faction seemed to lose heart with the Wilson administration though… where they were never the dominant position anyway.
The left thereafter depended mostly on ethnics and organized labor from that point on (until the late 60s).
The puritans (and really they were post puritans) formed part of the early modern left… but not the dominant faction and they never won on their own.
That is my basic criticism of the puritan hypothesis. I don’t reject it totally but it has problems. I agree with BAP’s Rosseau theory…
Not seeing it.
The “super protestant” faction seemed to be in the driver’s seat.
Wilson and House and FDR and Hopkins seemed to be to be inspired by British Fabians (who may have a pedigree going back to Protestant dissenters but if they do I’m not aware of it) rather than post Puritan dissenters.
The post puritan faction had a substantial rural voting bloc that disappeared almost entirely after Wilson when the Democratic party thereafter came to depend (as today) mostly on city voters (and now upon city vote counters).
Not seeing it either. Rousseau is just better concealed Calvinism.
How VP lost its head white-knighting the Lolita Question
https://littlebook-ghost.nfshost.com/how-vp-lost-its-head-white-knighting-the-lolita-question/
My thought/impression was VP poster “Imwill” was some sort of shill or hasbara. He is way off the “Hertzsprung-Russell diagram” of typical VP commenters.
i tested those waters on Social Galactic with that 4chan poast of Charlie & Eunice Johns delineating the multicultural AoC trap that gifts hymens to Juan, Tyrone, and Mohammed.
predictably there were no few hysterical responses. others came at me with their slanted Bible justifications for their purple/blue pill’d position. most simply said something to the effect of “any man sniffing around my teenage daughter gets shot.”
pointing out that many if not most girls are obviously fucking by 14/15 proved futile. they never engaged that point per se but only staunchly implied that they would not approve. how bold.
Question: if a man’s daughter is fucking around without his blessing is that a form of cuckoldry? because i floated that idea and the losers in that thread further lost their minds. many a You Have Been Blocked and all that.
interestingly, my primary supporters in discussing the subject were women, several of whom seemed to think getting married ever younger would have saved them no end of trouble and anguish as well as being both Biblical & healthier.
i noticed the men ignored these women, never inquiring of them on these points even once, and continued to question my allegedly compromised virtue until i tired of the exercise
Good field research that corroborates my impression from VP comments. It sounds like Social Galactic is a cucky waste of time. Would you agree? Or should I join and start trolling them from within?
Yes a daughter who plays the whore under her father’s roof cucks the father. That is why the daughter of a priest who did so was burned in front of her father’s door under Biblical law. Judah nearly burned Tamar for it.
Social Galactic is not a complete waste – there are certainly folk such as we in the mix there – however i can’t imagine you’d get the full gas outta it without a product to pitch. it’s useful place for getting traction on anything creative you happen to be crafting.
there are talented people in there but the quality of conversation however is much lowered compared to this haven
yes. we owe much to the Rooster Prophet.
To me that seems like a complicated question. Would I be wrong to say that a fathers genetic intrests regarding his daughter are more feminine than masculine?
It was in the sabine daughters genetic intrest to be taken by Romans. Was it not also in the Sabine fathers genetic intrests? If your wife gets taken you fight to the death, if your daughter gets taken you sabre rattle and shit test and then go home.
These guys that talk about shooting anyone who approaches their daughter, they’re probably softies who talk big. It’s a shit-test for anyone who approaches their daughter. But men are not used to instinctively shit-testing so first time fathers think that testing impulse is how they really feel.
If a man tries to keep his daughter chaste by scaring off her boyfriends, said daughter will bring home progressively more violent and brutal men, in an attempt to find a man who can and will kill her father.
Dalrock had a post on fathers living vicariously through their daughters and behaving like their pimps or cuck boyfriends. IIRC he argued that these fathers had emotionally incestuous relationships with their daughters due possibly to an unfulfilling relationship with their wives and that it was just as unhealthy as the momma’s boy relationships.
I’d like a link…
The weirdest thing I’ve always found is that its the fatherless girls who tend to like “nicer” guys at least enough to give them a chance more so than most American women. A “strong” father tends to create girls who want to find someone WORSE than Jeremy Meeks otoh. Girls who liked me tended to be fatherless or at least fatherless by puberty.
Fatherless boys otoh are a mess.
Like I said above, a girl will chase men who are stronger than her father. If your daughter has a good boyfriend or suitor, it is best for you to take the L and treat your prospective son in law as at least an equal to you.
What you observe is true. Fatherless girls are more willing to sleep with, date, and stay with nice guys, but you are probably in there after a long parade of assholes. But who knows. Thinking back on it, all the girls I banged who I knew long enough to talk about family with, had strong dads, and I knew strong because the girls would complain about their father being too overbearing. The ancient meme of the fatherless slut is probably not true, or if true, it is because fatherless girls sleep with nice guys, and nice guys notice that the only girls who put out for them don’t have dads.
One other reason for the fatherless slut trope is most women the absence of violently disapproving male relations and feminist or progressive memes will eagerly embrace prostitution. Most fatherless girls in pre progressive times probably did.
My personal experience is that women with weak or missing fathers become sluts and whores and men with weak or missing fathers become beta.
Girls whose father abandoned the family tend to have an earlier sexual debut than those with fathers. However, if I’m recalling this correctly, if the father dies rather than abandon, they will also delay sexual debut.
Draper and Harpending, “Father Absence and Reproductive Strategy: An Evolutionary Perspective”.
“Slut” is a bit of an imprecise term that is used to refer to general female sexual immorality. I’ll be more precise. Girls with no fathers are more indiscriminate in their mating. Girls with fathers are more hypergamous, and girls with strong fathers are extremely hypergamous, looking for men who could take her from her father, so she might not have a high body count, but the men she dates are liable to be very evil, as I was once very evil.
Aidan,
i often read your blog a Battleaxe to Bullshit. rollicking great stuff while it was there and i hope you backed it up or otherwise preserved those writings. always wanted to tell you how much fun i had reading it.
anyway you say you were once very evil, here. what precisely do you mean? i suspect i could do with some cultivation in this regard. are we talking Ragnar Redbeard MIGHT IS RIGHT or more James Lafond the knife-fighter?
RMIV, the archive of Aidan’s blog is linked in the blogroll of Jim’s blog. It’s a PDF of all of the posts.
https://blog.reaction.la/misc_upl/Setting%20The%20Record%20Straight.pdf
I think he means evil in the sense that he was the strongest man around and did what he wanted. Fucked around, deflowered virgins, was a general dick to anyone who was not one of “his” men or their women. That’s the impression I got from his blog. A barbarian, like Conan, who is stronger than the so-called civilized men and can push them around and take whatever he likes as a result.
I think it might be this https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2018/04/26/rules-for-dating-a-daughter-of-the-king/ or one of the articles it is linked to. Not sure till I dig through all of them.
I just heard that John Pipers (adult) kid did an anti-Christian screed on Tic Toc, and I thought of Dalrocks articles talking about how Piper advocated backdoor feminism.
I know good men can have sons go astray, but I don’t think John Piper ruled his roost at all in this case.
When I was in college, I met an English coed who said that almost every girl where she’s from loses their virginity at or before 13. It is not that she was of low caste, she was rich and attending a top liberal arts college.
Any man upset at someone pursuing his teenage daughter probably failed to notice she lost it many years ago.
agreed. when i was 11 or 12, was fooling around with girls my age (my sister one year younger often had sleepovers on weekends)
we had only a vague idea what we were doing, really, but parents rarely policed us for some reason and seemed forever oblivious so there was plenty of experimentation
i never forget how easy that was to get away with, right under their noses, and at such a young age too when i’m engaged in conversation with a blue/purple pill’d dad.
dead giveaway that such a man never received any genuine attraction from women for they can only imagine such things must occur under some form of evil coercion, it could never be their little princess’ idea.
cope seethe, the lot of them
when i was 17 i noticed most of the girls in my class, not to mention them in my sister’s circles a grade below us, were hooking up with college-age guys. knew a 15 year old too that had a 30-something musician boyfriend. parents are truly clueless, but looking back, i’m not sure the mum of that 15 year old didn’t know what was going on yet insisted on ignoring that the screen on daughter’s bedroom window kept coming off outside 🤔
the dad was a beta
That’s why the correct age of female marriage is near 12. It’s going to happen anyway, so best to make sure it happens with a worthy groom.
“any man sniffing around my teenage daughter gets shot.”
Then he sends his teenage daughter off to a party college 400 miles away.
ignoring the implied Trump-gushing Q-tardery,
y’all find any merit to the theory laid out in this poast?
https://greatawakening.win/p/12i4DJq8k2/many-are-asking-about-what-the-d/c/
Saw it happening in front of me. One of the many spokes Trump hurled into their wheels.
“It is an emergency”, says Trump, and proceeds to rip the bureaucratic obstacle course out by the roots under emergency executive powers.
Now if only he had declared a similar emergency on ballot box stuffing.
It’s an interesting question: namely, most of the right wingers assume the vaccine is a power play to make everyone submit to Bill Gates, big pharma, creeping surveillance via medical records, etc. but maybe it really is plan B?
It is not either or.
Our enemies are making hay with it. But they would have made more hay if no vaccine.
Yeah, I don’t think in terms of grand plans so much as elites who follow their incentives to take advantage of situations that emerge. But it’s a good point that, although I’m unhappy about pushes for e.g. “vaccine passports,” it arguably could have been worse if the vaccines hadn’t come along (though arguably it also could have been better if people had finally just gotten fed up, but the willingness of large segments of the population to go along with this seemingly interminably so long as uber eats is still running is shocking).
“but the willingness of large segments of the population to go along with this seemingly interminably so long as uber eats is still running is shocking”
yes. such strict lockdowns are only possible because many have access to high-bandwith internet. the WEF crew researches this extensively.
Why? Large segments of financially well-off men who’re deprived of home-cooked meals rely on Uber Eats. Uber Eats (and our local equivalent) are doing the Lord’s work.
(Deprived of home-cooked meals because deprived of hausfrauen).
Like I’ve been saying, get your vaccine shots or fake them. Pay an Indian pharmacist a small donation to toss the needle and stamp your card. The WuFlu freakout loses it’s power.
The the blocking of the J&J vaccine over death rate that’s far less than the other 2 and is actually lower than the some problem from women on birth control is just a desperate attempt to keep the COVID gravy train going.
FBI announcing they will prosecute fake vaccine passports.
https://www.ic3.gov/Media/Y2021/PSA210330
Not that they’ll know you bribed the Indian pharmacist, but in the off chance that they catch you or she reports you, you’re likely looking at the 1/6 Capital rioter treatment…20 years of domestic terrorism and sedition charges and indefinite solitary confinement before your trial with no chance for bail with regular black guard beatings of course.
Jim, why don’t you bring up the example of Mormons to buttress your point about breakdown in sexual relations already setting in in 19th century?
Reading 1883 book on American cities and the author is constantly whining about these degenerate, evil Mormons imposing their lust and polygamy on naturally chaste women. But then he’s constantly trying to explain why women are flocking to Mormonism despite that (3/4 church membership female in 19th century, ratio even more skewed in conversions).
Two quotes to give you that Jim feeling – J.W. Buel Mysteries and Miseries of America’s Great Cities (1883):
“The full enormity of this vassalage system will be better understood when the further fact is given that there are no laws in Utah against rape, incest, or oppression … Furthermore – and it is one of the most important considerations in considering the crimes of Mormonism – there are no coroners in Utah.” p. 446.
“Mormonism, instead of advancing by liberal footsteps, has gone back into the ancient ages and become like the church of Moses, Abraham, and the old patriarchs who lived under revelation just as the Mormon church does to-day. They have literally accepted the Old Testament as their code of ethos and live under it, by which we may see an existent society identical with that described in the Pentateuch.”
Sounds based to me. What am I missing on the Mormons?
I have not read that book. Added it to my already lengthy reading list.
Of course women converted to Mormonism. Always looking for a strong man backed by a strong tribe. Mormonism supplied the strong tribe. We need to supply the tribe. Trouble is that the instant we come out of cover, will be crushed as the Mormons were crushed.
The problem is the mainstream Mormon church has become the progressive Mormon church.
The Mormon elders are only a few years away from marching in pride parades and slutwalks.
The church already marches in pride parades.
I’d opine they have some major weaknesses, for the fundamentalist/trad ones it’s glaringly the idea that more women = more holy. For the mainstream ones it’s the fact that they caved on their core values when the American fed pressured them. Mainstream mormons ought to be better on the race issue and woman issue than others, but my experience indicates they are often worse and do extra virtue signaling to offset their doctrines. The most anti-polygyny folks I’ve encountered are mainstream mormons.
As to FLDS and mainstream mormons of old: they’ve always had a feminism issue. They have more than enough ‘strong horse’ traits to offset it and be desirable, but they have more ‘in house’ problems than mainstream protestant polygynists. Especially in terms of jealousy problems.
Utah was the first state to give women the right to vote. Predictably they strongly favored keeping polygamy. The fed was blindsided by this and promptly revoked womens right to vote. But the mormons have always been eager to signal how good they are to women, and how they’re just like the rest of society, and how they’re real true progressive people. Obviously they’re not progressive people, to their credit, but they try to signal it way too strong.
But if we’re not talking esoteric theology issues, the mormons core issue is just this: they view having more women as being more holy, and that implies all sorts of socially destructive things.
Link to hathi trust citation page for book (which has link to full book) for anyone interested (the title of this one is Sunlight and Shadow because the same book was released twice, second time under this name in 1889): https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/102286888 . Salt Lake City section is only interesting part as the rest of the book is just him complaining about women being corrupted by bad men in the big cities.
There is a bit on the marriage ceremony that also aligns with Jim’s perspective – “… he (the priest) tells the man that he must look to God, but the woman must look to her husband as her god, for if he lives in his religion, the spirit of God will be in him, and she must therefore yield him unquestioning obedience, for he is as a god unto her, and then concludes by saying that he having authority from on high … seals the man and woman for time and all eternity.” p. 436.
Tom – thanks for that analysis, I haven’t spent much time interacting with Mormons and that fills me in on some of the details. Feminism issue comes through a bit in the book where LDS seems to deny or keep secret some of their own ceremonies in order to avoid being seen as regressive.
To Tom’s point:
“A man’s or a woman’s glory in eternity is to depend upon the size of the family; for a woman to remain childless is a sin and a calamity … her husband’s rank in eternity must greatly depend on the number of his wives, and she will share in that glory whatever it is.” p.444
Also seems plausible that Mormons kind of needed to adopt polygamy considering their excess female population. But then once fixed as a core tenet, can become a problem.
The poly thing existed pre migration, so it seems to be a facet of Mormonism being founded by a small set of very alpha men. I respect that in and of itself. The tying of holiness to wives makes sense in the context of a first generation of very alpha pioneer men showing off their status. It leads to some obvious and some counterintuitive problems when that alpha philosophy became an intergenerational religion.
Obvious problem 1 is the supply problem. They’re not a war-culture that raids for women, but they are pretty good seducers (which made them enemies more than polygamy itself did). But the quantity-> holiness teirs demand way too much supply. Muslims cap wives at 4, but 4 for mormons is just getting into the upper teirs of holiness, with 7 being a more desirable number. If their numbers were more like 1 is holy, 2 is extra holy, 3 is max holy, they probably could have made a better go of it.
2nd problem is that it ties holiness to women, which is always, always a bad thing. This is mitigated a lot by the fact that the only holy woman is under a man. It’s still a problem though.
3rd problem is that saying ‘the supreme alpha decrees that all our men are alpha enough to have many women’ is, well, that it isn’t true. The supreme alpha seems quite happy to let some men be terrible with women and others great, and to let nature take it’s own soft eugenic course. Early Christians had concubines, the preisthood scolded them but it was otherwise tolerated. It was tolerated all the way to the lateran councils of the 1200s, and even past that to the council of Trent in the 1500s. Christianity has a place in it for the eunich and the alpha. And the alpha getting some scolding isn’t even a bug so much as a society-level shit test to make sure the man with more women is the kind of man that can handle more women.
Mormonism 1.0 doesn’t have a place for men who are bad with women. And that’s most men. I can’t help but wonder if the mormon preisthood of the day wasn’t eager to hear the US fed overturn polygamy.
I agree with Psudo-Chrysosotom in a way. It’s better than wives = holiness. But I think Christianity 1.0 had it better: if you want sex, you get a wife and have children. Or you just don’t have sex. There is no need to promote fecundity, God made sure it would come naturally. You just need to ban avoiding children. There is no need to make naturally infertile couples 2nd class, but there is a need to make intentionally infertile sex 2nd class or worse.
For disclosure Im a Christian that owns a couple women, and I know a variety of FLDS and protestant polygynists as well. My women behave well, and I have no doubt that most people on this blog could maintain multiple women without trouble, probably with less trouble than I have (I never was anything like a PUA).
But I would not reccomend polygamy to the overwhelming majority of men. They would have an endless stream of shit-tests. Mormon ‘God says I should have more women’ is a strong stance. The prot polyagamists say ‘I choose to have more women and Gods fine with it’ is stronger.
It’s a single sentence, so obviously there will be more nuance than can be fitted within a single sentence.
An implication of rampant bastardry can sound shocking to a civilized mind, but quite evidently, successful reproduction doesn’t actually take place *except* if there is patriarchal marriage, anyways – most especially with higher order species of humans.
Well said. Anyway it was a good single sentances that said a lot. To me it said the priority should be children, not wives, and I wholly agree.
Take it as ‘building on what you said’ more than ‘disagreeing with you’.
All that in mind I’d say it’s better to make patriarchal order itself holy. Being the patriarch entails a holy duty to those who belong to you, and not being the patriarch entails holy duty to the patriarch. Fecudnancy and stability will flow from that naturally
Which, I’d opine that Christianity 1.0 does.
Need to view having more children – or more grandchildren – as more holy instead.
Random thought this provoked; theological writings unsealed only after your death (ie, not writing that will benefit your status now).
I am fairly new to Jim‘s blog and reactionary thought in general. My knowledge of real history is very little which is why I was wondering if Jim would be willing to provide a list of essential reading.
Thank you
https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/
“The True History of the American Revolution”
by Sydney George Fisher
Short of it was that the American Revolution was treason – by English whigs against English tories – like the fall of China to communism and the Vietnam war was a proxy war for a power struggle fought in Washington, the American Revolution was a proxy war for a power struggle in London.
English Society 1688-1832: Ideology, Social Structure and Political Practice During the Ancien Regime
Reveals the centrality of the state Church and heretical entryism to politics.
I don’t have any good books for pre-1820 sex and marriage, for marriage 1.0. I much need one.
Amen.
GNON knows how many tradcucks I’ve triggered by that hate-fact, but the fact remains that the only Patriot in America was Benedict Arnold.
The closest thing you can find, or that i’ve found, would probably be something like The Monstruous Regiment of Women, by John Knox; which isn’t so much about how house fathers should coordinate to handle women, as much as it is about the women in authority question in particular.
“I don’t have any good books for pre-1820 sex and marriage, for marriage 1.0. I much need one.”
Untying the Knot by Roderick Phillips.
The book is written from the perspective that abolishing marriage is good, necessary and obvious circa ~1990, but gives a comprehensive comparative account of divorce laws in all of Europe throughout the post-reformation period.
The Anglicans seem to have had the toughest divorce laws in Europe, being essentially Catholics with a national focus, and this is reflected in the rapid population growth of England.
Jim: “All women will forcefully resist the trad wife role, All Women Are Like That, but they all love a man who successfully compels them to adopt it, and they all really enjoy being compelled to adopt it.”
Just want to say this comment from an older thread is a real lightbulb for me because, when I met my wife, she was a feminist who said her career was very important to her and that she didn’t want kids. As I gradually got her to accept a more traditional role, it’s been obvious each step of the way that she’s been happier, yet I’ve often wondered if I shouldn’t have just started with someone more naturally inclined to a trad role rather than marrying a feminist and slowly changing her.
If Jim is correct, as I suspect he may be, then my mistake was in thinking that my wife was resistant to the trad role I could tell she’d be happier with due to bad social programming from her liberal parents and pop culture. Rather, it could be that all women inherently, ironically resist accepting the trad role that will make them happy, but without a culture of patriarchal authority to make it happen, the individual father and/or husband bears a lot of the burden of well, taming her, so to speak?
yes. she will always resist.
Emperors with authority to execute any of their concubines for any reason or no reason, with concubines raised completely for the role, have had empire ending women troubles.
Woman are like that so that in the ancestral environment, they will wind up in the trad wife role as the property of a strong man, not a weak man.
Unfortunately our environment makes all men weak, so large numbers of women fail to accomplish what they are seeking, and wind up as cat ladies.
The solution is to boldly be strong, a course of action which is unavoidably dangerous.
There is no legal way to have marriage 1.0.
Christians keep trying to find a “good” woman. But no woman are good by blue pilled measure of a good woman. Hence the black pill.
All women are good under the thumb of a strong man. However, a woman who has banged too many men will only be good under the thumb of General Butt Naked.
It sounds too obvious put this way, but it seems a blind spot in many men’s mental model of women may arise due to the fact that we cannot know our mothers before they were mothers. I also never had an older sister or any older female cousins, etc. I saw frequently.
On an incidental note, people who wear helmets are more likely to get head injuries.
[citation needed]
The joke is about nominalistic thinking, and or how factums and statums will be unintelligible to persons possessed of such modes of thought – especially when purposefully used disingenuously.
It is literally true that ‘people who wear helmets’ are more likely to get head injuries… because people wearing helmets tend to be people in situations where they could expect a danger of head injury in the first place.
” A WITTY statesman once said, you might prove anything by figures. We have looked into various statistic works, Statistic-Society Reports, Poor-Law Reports, Reports and Pamphlets not a few, with a sedulous eye to this question of the Working Classes and their general condition in England; we grieve to say, with as good as no result whatever. Assertion swallows assertion; according to the old Proverb, ‘as the statist thinks, the bell clinks’! Tables are like cobwebs, like the sieve of Danaides; beautifully reticulated, orderly to look upon, but which will hold no conclusion. Tables are abstractions, and the object a most concrete one, so difficult to read the essence of. There are innumerable circumstances; and one circumstance left out may be the vital one on which all turned. Statistics is a science which ought to be honourable, the basis of many most important sciences; but it is not to be carried on by steam, this science, any more than others are; a wise head is requisite for carrying it on. Conclusive facts are inseparable from inconclusive except by a head that already understands and knows. Vain to send the purblind and blind to the shore of a Pactolus never so golden: these find only gravel; the seer and finder alone picks up gold grains there. And now the purblind offering you, with asseveration and protrusive importunity, his basket of gravel as gold, what steps are to be taken with him?—Statistics, one may hope, will improve individually, and become good for something. Meanwhile, it is to be feared the crabbed satirist was partly right, as things go: ‘A judicious man,’ says he, ‘looks at Statistics, not to get knowledge, but to save himself from having ignorance foisted on him.’ With what serene conclusiveness a member of some Useful-Knowledge Society stops your mouth with a figure of arithmetic! To him it seems he has extracted the elixir of the matter, on which now nothing more can be said. It is needful that you look into his sad extracted elixir; and ascertain, alas, too probably, not without a sight, that it is wash and vapidity, good only for the gutters. “
Got it, haha. I mentally extended your statement to read “people who waer helmets are more likely to get head injuries, compared to people who do not wear hlemets while engaged in tasks prone to head-injuries.” But you did not say that.
Thanks for the lesson in logic, friend. 🙏
This was a reply with 20:35 down below.
Random question: I think Jim has suggested the peripheries of the Chinese and/or Russian empires might be good places to wait out whatever’s currently brewing in the US and/or maybe Western Europe. Any thoughts on periphery of US empire, e.g. Puerto Rico, assuming one’s extended family is still in the continental US? If you had a job offer in Hong Kong and a job offer in Puerto Rico, which would you take?
Islands just seem wrong. Not sure why. If civilization collapses you will be stuck on that island. That seems like a fucked up situation to be in. If on a continent you can travel between cities on foot if need be or escape into the wilderness. Maybe this is not rational? I would choose Hong Kong over Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico could be a staging ground for some atrocity the empire cooks up. Look at what they are doing to St. Vincent today, refusing to rescue unvaccinated people before a volcano explodes. Kamala could just do some random shit to Puerto Rico like kill every white person to save the locals or carpet bomb it because their corona numbers are too high. They are going to make it a state soon. I’m not sure why you think it would be safer. If anything it is the perfect target because its under complete control of the empire, but far enough away that Americans see it as an irrelevant island of browns. Kamala will nuke it and leftists would be like AAAAA LOOK AT THE POOR BROWNS THIS IS WHY WHITE PEOPLE AND COVID ARE BAD, and conservatives would be like WOW DEMONCRATS ARE THE REAL RACISTS, IMAGINE IF THE OUTRAGE IF THEY DID THAT IN THE US??? THE HYPOCRISY OF DEMOCRATS KNOWS NO BOUNDS!!! Also you know how it’s supposed to be risky to live in major cities? The main reason for that is that if anything happens you can’t leave! The same thing sort of applies to an island. I’m sure it’s filled with FEMA people and military bases too, which is not good.
I choose Hong Kong 1000%.
I’m uneducated on this topic, but it’s something to think about.
Thanks for the thoughts! Tend to agree.
Boats are a thing.
A 30-ft sailing yacht is completely affordable, small enough for one person to handle and big enough to travel pretty much anywhere in the Caribbean or coastal US you want, assuming you’re willing and able to put in the time and work to maintain it. If you live in an island environment, you’d better.
If you’re living somewhere as a remote-worker IT drone with the boat as a luxury toy you take out less than once a month, then you’re not taking the vehicle seriously and should be continental. Take it out on a near-daily or at least weekly basis, barring bad weather, for a year or so, and you’ll be ready to pick any island you want. But you have to train yourself into knowing how to use it and knowing what to expect.
Boats cost a great deal of space, time, and money. A boat capable of fleeing a collapsing empire needs a group that regularly uses it, not one man that regularly uses it, because it really is not practical for one man to regularly use it. A thirty foot sailing yacht is not capable of fleeing the US empire, while still sucking up one hell of a lot of maintenance time, energy, and money.
If you can cross the ocean, you can flee the US empire. The ocean covers 70% of the Earth’s surface.
https://youtu.be/CiZKvDxeLeg
Pirates are going to be an obstacle, particularly around Africa. Make sure to bring plenty of weapons and ammo.
Pirates are a problem, but not the problem. The Indian Navy routinely fucks their shit up. The main problem is the US Fleet[1]. Good luck escaping that in a boat.
[1]: https://www.c7f.navy.mil/Media/News/Display/Article/2563538/7th-fleet-conducts-freedom-of-navigation-operation/
Very true, if we are assuming the US Navy is still operational during the time when you flee I would not want to run into them without valid documents, but than again if you have no Navy protection, pirating is going to turn from a small problem into a big problem especially around black territories. History is littered with black pirates causing problems against small merchant fleets. They will not be tremendously combat effective though. You may be able to repel them with precision rifle fire.
I should say African pirates in general not necessarily black. Plenty of Arab pirates causing problems.
Sending a billion dollar destroyer commanded by captainess Shaniqua to go after a single sailboat is Ever Given tier retardation.
That said, during the Bronze Age collapse, people whose homes were mobile (boats and tents) or who were rich Phoenician merchants were at a significant advantage than those whose homes were fixed to the land.
While having a home that was mobile was highly advantageous in the Bronze Age Collapse, being Chinese living in China was also advantageous during the Bronze Age Collapse.
The tribe of Dan, which according to one ancient source frequently or usually lived on boats, did OK during the bronze age collapse, but their boats were mighty big, had fifty or so men on board – which is roughly what you need to support and maintain a sailboat from within the resources and skills available on that sailboat, and also what you need when making landfall in dangerous territory. A thirty foot yacht is not equivalent, because the resources and skills needed to keep it going over any substantial time and distance are necessarily land based.
The Dannite solution is, approximately, the seasteading solution. Build a community that is sea based. Minimum required size is not small. And seasteading is dangerously vulnerable to drones with missiles and smart bombs. A large boat can be efficiently destroyed by a very small bomb from a very small drone.
Or, you know, you might skip the whole “Bronze Age” gayness and go straight from Stone to Iron, like South India.[1] Bet they don’t teach that in gay history. North India is slightly more complicated, but the line linking Bronze Age to proto-Aryans is a short, straight one. This is what you get for submitting to gayfake “history” terms like “Bronze Age collapse.” There was no such collapse in China, no such collapse in India. In fact, Aryan reading/writing is better in every way than Bronze age Indus Valley forefathers.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Age_India
There was no Bronze age collapse in Indochina because there was no Bronze age civilizational greatness in Indochina (and debatable if there was ever greatness in Indochina at any point in history).